Turning a shed into a vivarium

[Tiger1993]

Luckily my partner is happy with letting me turn a shed into viv for my tiger salamanders, I'm just wanting some advise on how you would do it, like heating during winter/cooling during summer, I'm wanting to keep it around 69 degrees Fahrenheit almost all year round, and include a water fall with a small pond, and have it as natural as possible for them, I'm wanting to go ahead and introduce earthworms, and wood lice into the terrestrial side, and shrimp, and guppies into the pond, so they can get established before I introduce and salamanders or anything so they can forage and hunt for themselves like they do in tier natural habitats as much as possible, and have it like a jungle from floor to ceiling, and advise on other amphibians/animals to add to the viv for a community, should I put in a rain/misting system to go off once a week or two for the plants? Any advise on how I should construct the shed to keep the wood from getting wet and rotting would be great, cause I'm going to go ahead and build the shed myself. Any idea on what substrates would be best? And any plants or other critters I should add so I can make it it's own self sustaining ecosystem?


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[sde]

Luckily my partner is happy with letting me turn a shed into viv for my tiger salamanders, I'm just wanting some advise on how you would do it, like heating during winter/cooling during summer, I'm wanting to keep it around 69 degrees Fahrenheit almost all year round, and include a water fall with a small pond, and have it as natural as possible for them, I'm wanting to go ahead and introduce earthworms, and wood lice into the terrestrial side, and shrimp, and guppies into the pond, so they can get established before I introduce and salamanders or anything so they can forage and hunt for themselves like they do in tier natural habitats as much as possible, and have it like a jungle from floor to ceiling, and advise on other amphibians/animals to add to the viv for a community, should I put in a rain/misting system to go off once a week or two for the plants? Any advise on how I should construct the shed to keep the wood from getting wet and rotting would be great, cause I'm going to go ahead and build the shed myself. Any idea on what substrates would be best? And any plants or other critters I should add so I can make it it's own self sustaining ecosystem?


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I am a bit confused...you are going to make a vivarium out of a shed? Or the vivarium will be in or part of a shed?
Hmm....I am not sure how you would keep it a consistent temperature all the time? Why not let if fluctuate with the seasons? The tiger salamander hibernate in the wild, so why not let them hibernate in your vivarium? You only need to provide a hibernacula ( a underground area for them ). In the summer if it gets too hot they can go in the hibernacula for cooler temps, or you could bring them into a basement or refrigerator to keep them cool.
A water fall might not be the best idea, they don't like very much current in the water. In ponds where they would naturally breed the water would be mostly just slow flowing. Also, if you aren't going to try and breed them then you only need a small water area. But if you are going to try and breed them then a larger water area can be provided.
Scuds ( kind of like shrimp...) are good in colder waters, and are pretty resilient, so their population could get nicely established.
I wouldn't advise adding any other amphibians or animals other than feeder items. There is really no benefit for the animals, and if anything will only put them at added danger.
If the vivarium is outdoors them no rain system will be needed, you can leave that to mother nature But if it is indoors them you can just water the plants with a watering can. Once a week sounds fine to me, but I definitely am no gardener....
To keep the wood from rotting you can coat it with a water seal, but then you will need to put a tarp ( or two ) inside the wood frame to keep the seals chemicals from getting to the amphibians. This will also make the vivarium able to hold water.
Here is a article about substrates that should help you out. Caudata Culture Articles - Vivarium Substrates
For plants I would recommend some ferns, mosses, and something to go in the water, like elodea.
Hope this helps -Seth

 

[Tiger1993]

We'll I'm going to make a vivarium out of a shed, from floor to ceiling, and one reason I want to build such a large vivarium for them is to try and give them as natural a habitat as possible, and just so they are as happy as possible, and I thought about that after I posted this, and I will be insulating the shed mainly so it doesn't get too hot I the summer, and that's why I was thinking about the exhaust fans to get the heat out, and as for the water fall I'm planning on the pond being large, and the water fall will just be coming straight down so basically no stream, and so it will help cool the room, and the humidity up, and the size of the pool would be large enough so that the water fall has almost no effect on the water flow, just aeration, and another reason for such a large vivarium for them is to try and get them to breed, and I never thought about scuds slipped my mind lol thank you.
And it will be outside but it's a shed with a roof lol so that's why I was thinking of the rain/mist system, and another though of mine for the rain/mist system was that maybe around fall/winter or early spring I could let it dry a little more than usual, and then use the rain system to try and mimic the rains to get them in the mood to breed.
As for sealing the wood, I found a pond liner/sealer that you can use like paint, you can either use a paint brush or a roller or spray it on and it's fish safe and aquatic life safe so I thought it would probably work, you think it would?
Thank you for your input, it deff gave me a few new ideas, it deff helped!


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[sde]

We'll I'm going to make a vivarium out of a shed, from floor to ceiling, and one reason I want to build such a large vivarium for them is to try and give them as natural a habitat as possible, and just so they are as happy as possible, and I thought about that after I posted this, and I will be insulating the shed mainly so it doesn't get too hot I the summer, and that's why I was thinking about the exhaust fans to get the heat out,

A large vivarium is fine. How will you insulate it? The insulation has to be amphibian safe too. Fans blowing air from inside the vivarium out will probably cool it down a bit.

and as for the water fall I'm planning on the pond being large, and the water fall will just be coming straight down so basically no stream, and so it will help cool the room, and the humidity up, and the size of the pool would be large enough so that the water fall has almost no effect on the water flow, just aeration, and another reason for such a large vivarium for them is to try and get them to breed, and I never thought about scuds slipped my mind lol thank you.

Okay, so sounds like the water fall wont make too much current. In order to get them to breed you are going to need the let the temperature fluctuate a lot with the seasons, it is a natural breeding trigger. How many salamanders are going in this vivarium?

And it will be outside but it's a shed with a roof lol so that's why I was thinking of the rain/mist system, and another though of mine for the rain/mist system was that maybe around fall/winter or early spring I could let it dry a little more than usual, and then use the rain system to try and mimic the rains to get them in the mood to breed.

Yes, a rain system or something will help stimulate breeding. Let it get dryer in the summer, then have it rain in the fall, then have it get dry and cold in the winter, and then in the spring let it warm up a bit and make it rain a lot. That's general advise on how to give them good natural seasons. It can be more complicated than that, though.

As for sealing the wood, I found a pond liner/sealer that you can use like paint, you can either use a paint brush or a roller or spray it on and it's fish safe and aquatic life safe so I thought it would probably work, you think it would?

I would have to know the exact product to really give you a good opinion.

Thank you for your input, it deff gave me a few new ideas, it deff helped!

You're welcome.

Well did just write a long detailed response and apparently it didn't post

It did post, it just had to be approved by the moderators.

 

[Tiger1993]

We'll I was going to put the insulation inside the wall, so it will be behind the plywood, and then I was going to seal it, but do you have any recommendations for insulations?

And yeah, I plan on the water fall to be that way because of water flow but I also want it to aerate the water and help cool the air a little, and I'm not sure exactly how many yet, the shed will be about 30' by 30' is there a certain number that would be good for that size vivarium?

And yeah, that's why I decide not to heat or cool it and just let it cool and heat with the weather outside.

The pond liner I found is from Home Depot, here's the link to it http://m.homedepot.com/p/Pond-Armor...ack-Non-Toxic-Epoxy-SKU-BLACK-QT-R/203886503/
Let me know what you think of it.

And thank you so much, I am so glad to have found this forum, it's important for people to be able to go somewhere and ask questions and get a variety of information, where I live in georgia there is one pet store 15 minutes from me and there's not another ones for over an hour away, and I learn best from other people so it means a lot to me to have a place to go an ask questions and people will actually take time out of their day to answer my question and help, again, thank you so much!


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[Tiger1993]

I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to add a dogger to the setup?


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[Tiger1993]

I was also wondering if anybody had any suggestions for some light systems for it, they will need to be able to withstand high humidity and, an possibly some water getting on them, but I will mainly be growing a lot of mosses, and ferns, and I was also thinking of a few bonsai trees, and of course aquatic plants in the pond, so I guess I'm also just wondering if there's any grow lights or something that are made for wet conditions?


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[Tiger1993]

Would it be a good idea to basically have it halfway in the ground to help keep it cooler in the summer?


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[RPM]

I would suggest housing them in a simple set up such as a 20 gallon long tank with a water dish, soil substrate with a few hides and a spray water bottle maintained at 60-70F. You’re not going to be able to enjoy viewing them and will have trouble monitoring their food intake in the complex environment you are describing. The largest obstacle you’re facing is maintaining a healthy temperature during the warmer months in Georgia. I suggest starting with the basics and adding more elaborate amenities as you gain experience with the specie.

 

[sde]

We'll I was going to put the insulation inside the wall, so it will be behind the plywood, and then I was going to seal it, but do you have any recommendations for insulations?

I think that would work.

and I'm not sure exactly how many yet, the shed will be about 30' by 30' is there a certain number that would be good for that size vivarium?

That is a huge vivarium! I would highly recommend starting with something smaller, since this is your first vivarium. In a vivarium that size...man, I don't even know. You could have a lot of salamanders in it, 10 probably, but like I already said, I would really advise you to start with a smaller enclosure.

The pond liner I found is from Home Depot, here's the link to it http://m.homedepot.com/p/Pond-Armor-...T-R/203886503/
Let me know what you think of it.

Seems safe enough.

And thank you so much, I am so glad to have found this forum, it's important for people to be able to go somewhere and ask questions and get a variety of information, where I live in georgia there is one pet store 15 minutes from me and there's not another ones for over an hour away, and I learn best from other people so it means a lot to me to have a place to go an ask questions and people will actually take time out of their day to answer my question and help, again, thank you so much!

I am glad to help

I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to add a dogger to the setup?

I don't think that would be necessary.

I was also wondering if anybody had any suggestions for some light systems for it, they will need to be able to withstand high humidity and, an possibly some water getting on them, but I will mainly be growing a lot of mosses, and ferns, and I was also thinking of a few bonsai trees, and of course aquatic plants in the pond, so I guess I'm also just wondering if there's any grow lights or something that are made for wet conditions?

LED lights are supposed to be good for growing plants, plus if you buy ones that are made for aquariums than they will probably be water resistant.

Would it be a good idea to basically have it halfway in the ground to help keep it cooler in the summer?

Yes, and it will also keep it a bit warmer in the winter.

I would suggest housing them in a simple set up such as a 20 gallon long tank with a water dish, soil substrate with a few hides and a spray water bottle maintained at 60-70F. You’re not going to be able to enjoy viewing them and will have trouble monitoring their food intake in the complex environment you are describing. The largest obstacle you’re facing is maintaining a healthy temperature during the warmer months in Georgia. I suggest starting with the basics and adding more elaborate amenities as you gain experience with the specie.

I would have to agree. With a enclosure that size you would probably see very, very little of you salamanders. Even in a 20 gallon terrarium you might not see them much, they burrow a lot. If you really want to have a vivarium though, I would recommend starting with something a lot smaller, like maybe 5 feet by 3 feet or smaller. -Seth

 

[Tiger1993]

We'll I agree with yo guys on that for beginners but I've had a lot of vivariums between 10 gallons all the way to 100 gallons, and I understand I may not see them a lot but I'm mainly wanting such Big one because I want them to be in as natural a habitat as possible to hopefully get them to breed, and I already have a 55 and a 20 gallon for my indoor ones, but I also like the large vivarium idea because I may not see them often but I like being able to walk into it and watch them in a natural habitat


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[Tiger1993]

Am for food intake I'm wanting to get some earthworms, and woodlice established in the land side and shrimp, and some scuds established in the pond side so that when I can't find them to feed them they can eat/hunt for their food themselves


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[Tiger1993]

I guess the best way to explain is I'm not looking to build it for my viewing pleasures of the salamanders, when I take on the responsibility of any animal, I want to make their life as best a possible so I'm looking to build for their happiness


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[sde]

We'll I agree with yo guys on that for beginners but I've had a lot of vivariums between 10 gallons all the way to 100 gallons, and I understand I may not see them a lot but I'm mainly wanting such Big one because I want them to be in as natural a habitat as possible to hopefully get them to breed, and I already have a 55 and a 20 gallon for my indoor ones, but I also like the large vivarium idea because I may not see them often but I like being able to walk into it and watch them in a natural habitat

It is your decision, but in the wild they wont utilize much space, so giving them that much space isn't really necessary. They stay underground or hiding most of the time.

Just a suggestion on the walk in idea. Maybe make a mini boardwalk or similar? That way you don't have to be so careful not to squish them? I have actually thought of the whole "walk in vivarium" before, it is a pretty cool idea....

 

[Tiger1993]

Yeah, I was trying to think of ways to make it safer for walking in rather than having to tip toe or dig around to make sure they aren't there, and that's an amazing idea! I'll probably end up doing that. The only other idea I was able to come up with was putting in stepping stones that touch the bottom of the shed so the can't get under them


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[Tiger1993]

And I was hoping that wit the size vivarium I'm going to build that twit were other amphibians or something I could house with them, could I house fire salamanders with them? What other salamanders or amphibians could I house with them?


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[sde]

Yeah, I was trying to think of ways to make it safer for walking in rather than having to tip toe or dig around to make sure they aren't there, and that's an amazing idea! I'll probably end up doing that. The only other idea I was able to come up with was putting in stepping stones that touch the bottom of the shed so the can't get under them


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I am glad I inspired you Stepping stones would work too, like you say.

And I was hoping that wit the size vivarium I'm going to build that twit were other amphibians or something I could house with them, could I house fire salamanders with them? What other salamanders or amphibians could I house with them?


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I wouldn't suggest it. There aren't any benefits for the animals, and there could be potential risks. The large water area that you are describing wouldn't be the best idea with fire salamanders, as they are poor swimmers. They lack a dorsal laterally flattened tail.
Really, anything that is smaller than the tiger salamanders can get eaten by them. So, anything that is not intended to be prey has to be large enough to escape predation. And even if you find something that is the right size ( like a fire salamander ) there can be other problems ( like drowning, in this case ).
In my opinion it is just a unnecessary risk, with no reward other than personal satisfaction. :happy:

 

[Tiger1993]

Yeah, I figured, I guess I was just hoping lol


Would these mushrooms be safe in the terrestrial side? They are on a pecan tree limb that fell of a long while ago, main reason I was wanting to use it was because of the woodlice, and they would look awesome and make it look more natural

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[Tiger1993]

Now, would it be safe to get some meal worms to start to breed in the terrestrial side?


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[sde]

I think the mushrooms would probably be fine.

Meal worms have hard exoskeletons that are hard for the salamander to digest, it is best to leave them out. Woodlice and worms should be enough food.