Illness/Sickness: Triturus species, possisble poisoning, composting worm issue.

[eldaldo]

Hi,

I have been keeping newts for years now. Have raised two batches of T. karelinii and feel pretty competent in the care of newts. However, suddenly I am having a serious issue.

I'll tell you the story. I have been keeping newts for years (I currently have two marms and one karelinii) usually feeding them on bait store earth worms, with the annual or bi-annual dose of blackworms. Last spring however, I decided to try my hand at vermiculture and looked up which species were best for newts. I bought what were supposed to be european nightcrawlers but now i can't find the website which i bought them from, so I can't remember what particular scientific name it was. Anyway, I have been feeding them almost strictly on those for the past six months, maybe four worms a week. I recently went out of town for a week, and then neglected to feed them for a couple more days, it was probably two weeks since i had last fed them. I decided to feed them every day for a while to make up for it. The first day they ate their fill. the next day they each only took one worm and when i tried to feed them a second they refused it. i thought that was odd. then the next day one of the marms refused to eat at all. the next day the other marm stopped eating and two days ago my karelinii stopped eating. yesterday i went to look at the karelinii and she was limp in her tank, she would move if i picked her up. today i woke up and she appeared dead to me, but luckily i just left her and now she is occasionally moving weakly. I feel terrible and am not sure what is wrong other than the fact that it appears to related somehow to the worms. possibly there is something toxic that i have been feeding to them.

here are the worm facts/ illness hypotheses. I have never attempted to feed them so many at once. I usually spread out the feedings over the week, one worm at a time and they have stayed relatively fat for me, though I have noticed that when i try to feed them two worms at a time sometimes they don't accept the second worm, I always assumed this was due them not being finished swallowing.

The worms are supposed to not be red worms which i know have a secretion that the newts don't like. however, I am not certain of this. They seem smaller than what other people describe or picture as european nightcrawlers. yet, they also appear larger than red wigglers to me. I will try to upload a picture tomorrow for identification. I have noticed that if i squeeze them a yellowish liquid comes out. for you worm people out there, is that normal for eisena hortensis/Dendrobaena veneta? perhaps the reason they are poinsonous to my newts is that they are not what i was told they are, and their secretions are toxic to newts?

perhaps I am feeding them something that ends up being toxic to newts. I mostly feed them banannas and what i would assume to be harmelss fruits like apples, green peppers, leafy greens, beans. lately since it is fall i have been tossing in tomatoes that have fallen off my bushes, and some onions that have rotted. I know that these are ok for the worms to eat, but i never really thought that they may be toxic to newts because of acidity or . . . whatever the chemicals are in onions that make us cry. perhaps the onions are killing my newts?

lastly, my worm bin has definitely received an influx of vegetable matter and been full of fruit flies and has gotten pretty moist. I am wondering if there could be any sort of fungus or other organism that is secreting things poisonous to newts or potentially even infecting my newts?

I guess most of the questions are mostly directed to you enthousiasts who feed your newts with homegrown composting worms. I thought I did enough research before i started feeding the newts with them, but clearly I am doing something wrong. I am assuming that I am not doing anything else wrong because the newts clearly decided to stop eating and also because the worms are the only thing i am doing differently and heat or escape have been the only unfortunate killers of my newts in the past . . .

still though any help is appreciated. I really hope my karelinii makes it through because I grew her from an egg 6 years ago . . .

 

[Niels D]

The secretion of a yellowish substance is normal for D.venata. It's supposed to have a foul taste, but it shouldn't be toxic. I think you've got D.venata, but I'm not sure of course. I have a D.venata culture myself and I've never experienced problems. I'm feeding 10 species with them. Fungus in your culture shouldn't cause any problems either it it's caused by the vegetable matter as long as you don't put any onions, citrus fruits or leek in it. If you do, this will cause trouble within your culture, but I don't know if this makes the worms toxic.

I don't know how big the worms which you give them are, but it sounds like you've fed them quit a lot in one turn. Maybe that's causing problems, but I've got no experience with the problem you're describing.

 

[evut]

Check out this website, perhaps it can help you ID your worms.
Earthworm guide | OPAL

 

[eldaldo]

Well, I am certainly alarmed and worried about what might be the problem. This morning I went digging around my tiny yard and was able to find 2 earthworms. I fed them to my 2 marms, and at first they refused them but then i think once they realised they weren't my compost worms . . . they showed more energy than i've seen in a long time and nearly devoured the worms. my karelinii is still pretty slow moving but perhaps is better than yesterday. I think i will wait a little still before I try feeding her but I will find another worm from my yard for that. I'm a little nervous about feeding them the compost worms now.

for those of you who do feed your newts compost worms how often and how many do you feed at a time? also what sorts of things do you feed your worms with? My marms appear fine now, and if the worms aren't the source of the problem, does anyone else know what could cause a newt to basically go limp and for all intensive purposes appear dead for a while? then slowly appear to recover?

 

[michael]

It could just be from not feeding enough to the newts and then feeding to much. An empty stomach that is filled to the max creates digestive problems.

 

[eldaldo]

well, thankfully. All my newts seems healthy and active again. However, I am still a little nervous about the worms . . . I guess maybe i shouldn't try to feed my newts so many of them. I may hit up the feeding forum to see how often and in what numbers other people feed these worms to their newts.