toad suddenly disappeared - dead?

[rawmatter]

I have a terrarium that is 50/50 land and water with a river that flows the recycled "pond" water back through the land and my toads have been very happy here for years (around 5 years). The tank is 100% secure and there is NO possible way for a toad to escape (tank is too deep for them to reach the lid, sides are sealed glass). However, one of my toads is suddenly missing. I figured that he had buried under the soil and rocks but when I searched for him today he was not there.

It's possible that it might have died, but I know for sure that it was alive a few days ago when I fed them last (July 3rd). There were only 2 toads in the tank so it was pretty obvious when it was missing. I searched the whole room (it also couldn't have gotten out of the room) just in case it got loose from the tank but found nothing.

I had one die once years ago and it was like other people have described - instant rigor mortis, laying on the land. Is it possible that this one maybe died in the past few days and has totally decomposed? I took all of the foliage and rocks out of the tank and didn't find anything (bones, etc.). I have read where in extreme cases, frogs and toads can be cannibalistic, but there wasn't anything necessarily wrong that would have caused that (they were recently fed). Any ideas?

Did I miss a UFO or something? There was a full moon last week...

 

[Jennewt]

When you say the tank was 100% secure, do you just mean it had solid SIDES? What about a lid? You may be underestimating their climbing ability, although I've never kept this species so I don't know.

Do you have a cat?

 

[Brodysmom]

We woke up to a missing toad this morning. I was checking on my two boys last night before I went to bed and went to go feed the toads. I couldn't find one of them, but they have a pretty cool tank with loads of hiding places, etc so I didn't give it much thought.

I told my son, Brody to look for him this morning and he's gone too.

The other toad is fine, no "remains" of the other toad, nothing!

Our set up is secure, although the top is a mesh cage, I can't imagine in a million years the toad would figure out how to get out.

We do have a dog, which is not in interested in the toads at all (I don't even think she knows they are in the house!).

Anyone have any ideas? I have a little 8 yr old who's quite upset and I guess I'd like to be able to give him some sort of explanation.

Just a long show, but are fire belly toads by chance cannibalistic?

Thanks.
Lisa

 

[Jennewt]

They could be cannibalistic, but there would need to be a large size difference for this to happen.

Is there any kind of crack or gap under the screen lid? Like where a cord passes underneath, for example?

How thoroughly did you search the tank? If it's complex, it's still possible the frog could still be hiding someplace. I hope you find it (alive)!

 

[Brodysmom]

Well I searched the entire tank. Emptying it totally. Nothing

I went to FIVE different pet stores today, one specializing in lizards, reptiles, etc. They all seemed to come to the conclusion that either he got eaten by the other toad or pulled a Houdini and escaped.

We've looked thoroughly in the entire room and nothing. There does seem to be a huge discrepancy on how much and how often to feed the fire belly toads (based on these 5 different stores). What is correct? A lot of them thought that we weren't feeding them enough, and when we did feed them the crickets were too large, which could account for the one toad getting accustomed to having large feed. There was a size difference between the two toads, although we purchased them at the same time. Not a huge difference, but the remaining one is definitely larger. AND he's got a large belly today?!?!?!?!

I'd love some input as to size and frequency of feeding of live crickets for the remaining toad. In the meantime, we're now proud owners of two leopard geckos (ugh, the life of a mom to two boys!).

Thanks.
Lisa

 

[Brodysmom]

UPDATE:

Well the missing fire-belly toad was solved today.

While doing some cleaning up today, I discovered that my son's toad had in fact escaped and made his way past three bedrooms, down the hall and into my closet!! Unfortunately he didn't survive the journey

I guess I feel better knowing he wasn't eaten, but how the little guy managed to get out is still a mystery.

Guess it just goes to show, they are quite the escape artists!

Lisa

 

[Jennewt]

If one got out, the other could also get out. Triple-check the escape-proofing of the tank. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/escape.shtml

 

[keechoo]

These guys can easily escape from a tank. I had 2 last year that scaled a 2 1/2 foot tall tank to squeeze out of a whole where the wires run. One of them has not been found but the other was found 10 months later (yes, I said 10 months). I went to my basement and found him by my dryer. The tank is on the main floor so somehow he found his way down there. We live in a 1700s house with the original dirt floor and stone foundation so he found plenty of water and bugs to feast on during his "free" time. He was a little skinny but lots of energy. Needless to say, his name is now Prodigal. The other toads were very happy to have him back home. One came over and put his arm on him and Prodigal began croaking with the others joining in. Maybe I'll be lucky and find the other one down there.

So far, I found 2 red back salamanders and 2 American toads which found there way in through the foundation. Three were safely released into the woods and one, sadly, died from injuries coming through the foundation.

 

[Louie]

These guys can easily escape from a tank. I had 2 last year that scaled a 2 1/2 foot tall tank to squeeze out of a whole where the wires run. One of them has not been found but the other was found 10 months later (yes, I said 10 months). I went to my basement and found him by my dryer. The tank is on the main floor so somehow he found his way down there. We live in a 1700s house with the original dirt floor and stone foundation so he found plenty of water and bugs to feast on during his "free" time. He was a little skinny but lots of energy. Needless to say, his name is now Prodigal. The other toads were very happy to have him back home. One came over and put his arm on him and Prodigal began croaking with the others joining in. Maybe I'll be lucky and find the other one down there.

So far, I found 2 red back salamanders and 2 American toads which found there way in through the foundation. Three were safely released into the woods and one, sadly, died from injuries coming through the foundation.

Oh wow neat story. I have a pair of Ocellated skinks which breed yrly. The male escaped due to my stupidity of leaving screen off while cleaning the cage (30 gallon long with lots driftwood to climb)
They rarely climb and not well but either way it was my fault. 6 months later I sold the house and was packing I found him in basement which is a built basement no insects that I knew of and in winter it was cold (NY)
he was alive very thin and lost his color but alive. I misted him put him in tank with crickets and he did fine now they are in Miami which I think they prefer as 10 months a yr they are kept in outside sunny patio ofcourse with lid securely on.