Tiger dilema

[devynn]

I have a tiger that just recently stopped eating and was an aggressive eater. I don't know if he is sick or stressed. He looks so sad. I take him out of his hiding place and place him in water because he is the one that always sat in the pool the longest like he was relaxing in a tub. He won't eat even if the cricket crawls on him. I don't see him moving much in the day or night but will crawl on me if I take him out. Should I not be touching him. The other two crawl on me like puppies, so friendly. I don't want to lose him because he has been a part of my dynamic trio for quite some time now. I never thought something this little and simple could have such an affect on my emotions. He doesn't look skinny, maybe a little puffy. Do you think he could have eaten something he wasn't suppose to like a rock or stick? Please help!

 

[samuel]

Devynn, i know how u feel, i once had an iguana when i was little and my whole life revolved ard it. It fell to metabolic bone disorder and eventually, i had to give it away. It still breaks my heart thinking about it.

U shdn't be handling the salamander too often as the warm body temperatures of ours are too high for it. Also, i feel that it would lose moisture when in contact with our skin. How long have u had him? And what is the temp of the enclosure? I've not heard of terrestrial salamnders ingesting inanimate objects in their enclosures but it could be possible. Not much help here cuz i've never kept one b4. Do some reading up on the internet, u may get ur ans there. All the best to it.

 

[rob]

Hi Devynn,

What is your setup for your tiger salamanders? Usually the reason animals get sick is improper setups, especially for tigers. If you go to Caudate Central you can look at the tiger caresheets and the article on mole salamanders to get a good idea of what they require.

Also, how regularly are you feeding the animal? Salamanders should really only be fed every three days, so it could just be full depending on how often you are trying. In addition it is the time of season where most animals slow down due to the weather changes. If he is looking puffy and ignoring all food though then I would wager something is wrong.

Let us know your setup and that will help.

As for handling, Samuel is right by saying it should be avoided, but for the wrong reasons. The oils and salts in your hands can irritate the skin of the salamanders. Also, they absorb moisture and such through their skin, so your oils and salts would be absorbed into them. This can be at least irritating to the animal and at most harmful. It also stresses the animal. Tigers seem least likely to stress from frequent handling then most species though, but as a precaution I would isolate him in a new setup following the caresheets on the site and stop handling him until he is better.

Also double check your current setup matches what is suggested on Caudate Central and if not make some adjustments to help keep your current animals healthy.

 

[devynn]

I have had my sals for five months. They are in an aquarium with different landscaping. I have jungle dirt and rocks and peat moss, which I hear is bad for them after I was told to use it so they could hide in it. I also have a little pool for them and caves to hide in. I am going to redo their environment tonight or tomorrow. I got a bunch of good advice from caudate central. I was told to use soil instead of jungle dirt but I live in town. What do you feel about top soil that you buy in stores? I am also going to change their diet a little and see how they react. Wish me luck!

 

[rob]

Just so long as it's not a potting soil or anything with additives such as manure then it should be fine. I buy mine and it's called "Black Earth".

How often are you feeding and what items?

Do you have any additional information such as you started using a new item in the tank just before he started acting weird? That could have something to do with it.

 

[devynn]

I never thought about it but I bought little marbles to replace the gravel I had in there to make it easier to clean. You don't think that could be what is stressing him out?

I feed them mostly crickets. They won't eat anything that doesn't move. The smallest one will eat Reptomin but the other two won't have anything to do with it. They will even spit it out if I trick them into eating it. I did give them worms that I found outside once. I am going to buy some tonight.

(Message edited by sal3 on December 05, 2003)

 

[rob]

How large are the marbles? Could he have swallowed one? Did you clean the marbles before using them in the tank? You're going to convert them over to soil soon?

Try things other then just crickets that are alive...earthworms are best.

 

[devynn]

Marbles aren't too small. I don't think that he swallowed one. I checked him out at lunch and he didn't look skinny, hurt, or in pain of any sort, just sad. I'm going to do some spoiling this weekend. Where do you get the black earth stuff? By the way, how do I tell if they are male or female?

 

[samuel]

Devynn, just asking, u do use dechlorinated water in the water dish do u?
Btw Rob, i missed out on the part abt the oils and salts and i agree with that. However i read that our body temp is indeed too warm for the animals and that is the reason why it is recommended to wet the hands before handling caudates.

 

[rob]

Hi Sam,

The wetting of hands, from my understanding, is to try and wash off some of the oils and salts as well as to provide some moisture for the animal while being held.

You mentioned you read about the body temps? I wouldn't mind learning more, so if you could send the reference my way I would love to give it a look over so I don't make this mistake again.

 

[samuel]

Hi Rob, the source where i got the 'wetting hands part' was actually on a thread. I have no idea how to direct it to u. Perhaps u could tell me how?

 

[samuel]

Ok Rob, i just did a search on the threads and i couldn't find the part on wetting hands. Maybe it wasn't there in the first place. But i'm sure i read something like it somewhere in some websites. Sorry man, no proof, but i'll stick to it using a bit of logic. Most caudates are comfortable with temperatures below 70F and the human body temp is abt 37.9 degrees C (maybe slightly lower for the extremities). Hence handling em with our dry bare hands may be equilvalent to pressing our bodies on the bbq grill. Not a very good analogy i guess but the temp diff is good enough a reason for me

.

 

[rob]

Hi Sam,

If you do ever come across it I'd love for you to send it my way.

As for your example there is a big difference...our skin would burn at those temperatures on a bbq. Their skin would not burn in our hands. Also, since it's only for a short period of time, it wouldn't be much different then them walking across a small amount of warm rocks or a warmer part in a stream during summer. The salts and oils are my main concern whenever picking up amphibians.

 

[devynn]

Okay, I bought dirt this weekend and rearranged their area. I bought some nightcrawlers also. He still won't eat and he won't even dig in the dirt. All he does is hide in his little cave. The other two are going crazy(making a huge mess) in the dirt.

There are holes everywhere and they are so dirty. They loved the worms too! I am at a loss about the other one. My husband looked at him yesterday when I had them out of the aquarium and he asked me what was wrong with it. Then he told me that he might die because he thinks he is constipated. Could that be true? He doesn't look unhealthy, he looks crazy!

To answer your question, Sam, I do use bottled water instead of tap.

 

[rob]

Is the bottled water spring or distilled? Don't use distilled. They need the minerals found in spring water.

Did your husband have a reason for thinking it was constipated? If he appears constipated it could be a marble that is causing impaction.

Have you isolated him/her in its own tank? That's my first advice.

They won't starve if they've been fed well for a while, which it sounds like you were doing. I would keep him isolated and make sure to give it tender love and care.

Does he/she appear swollen in any place, or in general, or not at all? That could help identify what may be wrong. The new soil is free of any pesticides or fertilizers, right?

I hope he/she gets better soon.

 

[devynn]

I didn't realize the difference between the water; I have used both. I will remember that when I go to the store, thanks. As far as the marble swallowing, as little as they are they would look like the cartoon Ed, Edd, & Eddy with the huge jawbreakers. Could he not have digested his food right or swallowed a piece of wood? Last night when I checked them he had his head peeking out of his cave, so I think he feels better. He acts wild again, like he is scared of me. I wish I could know if he comes out when we go to bed. I put a couple of crickets at the end of his cave last night and I didn't see any this morning so either he ate them or they are hidding. I don't know why he has changed within the last couple of weeks. Maybe I traumatized him when I thought he was stuck in the tube I had in there and forced him to come out. He hasn't been the same since. OOOPS! He acts like he wished I were dead!

The only reason my husband said that about the constipation was because of how agitated he looked when I took them out to clean. By the way, the dirt I bought was chemical free. Just plain ol' top soil. The others think that it is great!

(Message edited by sal3 on December 09, 2003)

 

[devynn]

Oh, another thing. If I keep him isolated and then put him back with the others if he gets better, will they be mean to him? The other two do EVERYTHING together. They are partners in crime. They lay next to eachother, dig together, sit in the water together, and eat together. It might sound weird but that is how they are. You would think that they were siamese twins. Is this strange? About the swelling, I thought at first that his stomach area looked a little puffy, like if he were pregnant(theoretically speaking). (He=pregnant)

That's funny! I really need to figure out what their sex is.

 

[rob]

If it's just the stomach area looking swollen it could be the marble....but if it's his whole body it could be bloat of sorts.

Putting him back in when he gets better shouldn't be a problem so long as there is still enough room for three tigers. Salamanders don't really form friendships, but in captivity the ideal spots in the tank (which change constantly) are few, so the animals will tend to 'chum around' together. It is just us project human emotions on them...nothing wrong with it so long as you realize that, if one of them was small enough to eat, the bigger one would eat it without hesitation.

 

[devynn]

Rob, first off, sorry about all the male comments. You have been a great help and I don't want to piss you off and never help me again. My little guy ate 3 crickets last night!

WOO, WOO! I isolated him and he finally ate. But it isn't all good news. The little butthead escaped last night and I about had a heart attack when I checked on him. I have no idea how he got out, he's like spiderman. I found him, didn't look to well. I stuck him back with the others and my husband said he was digging when he checked on him so I think he is alright. Thank God! I am a bad mother! Thanks for all your help! He doesn't look puffy anymore, either. I don't know what was wrong with him. I might have to start all over because he is probably traumatized from his fall.

 

[rob]

I'm glad to hear he's doing well Devynn. Keep us posted!