Temperate clams/mussels

[Goobs]

I saw some temperate clams/mussels in my LFS today and was wondering if anyone keeps these with their axolotls? I know the usual rule is not to have anything in the tank with axolotls but these were at least 3 inches across and i can't imagine how they would hurt the axies.

 

[hacelepues]

Don't know much about the clams, but I can only imagine they they'd be harmful in the same 2 ways that snails are harmful.

Clams open and close, and generally, they're open unless they get spooked. If an axie notices some movement or smells it and investigates/tries to eat it, the clam will shut very quickly and can trap a body part, or even their insides if they manage to eat a smaller one.

Also, if the axie manages to eat a smaller one, it's shell will behave like a stone and impact it.

Better safe than sorry :/

 

[FX1C]

I can imagine an axie would easily be munched in half by a clam shell snapping closed 0.0 I've nearly lost diving knives poking clams... Wouldn't risk an axie



<3 >o_o< <3

 

[xxianxx]

Don't know much about the clams, but I can only imagine they they'd be harmful in the same 2 ways that snails are harmful.

Where do you guys get this information from ? Do you honestly think that wild axolotls would have avoided snails ? There may potentially be some problems with large snails getting stuck in the mouths of axolotls or certain species having exceptionally hard shells and cause impaction but on the whole these would be exceptions rather than the rule.
My main concerns with clams would be that one would die unnoticed and stink the tank up, there may also be the potential of a clam closing on an axolotls limb.

 

[FX1C]

Where do you guys get this information from ? Do you honestly think that wild axolotls would have avoided snails ? There may potentially be some problems with large snails getting stuck in the mouths of axolotls or certain species having exceptionally hard shells and cause impaction but on the whole these would be exceptions rather than the rule.
My main concerns with clams would be that one would die unnoticed and stink the tank up, there may also be the potential of a clam closing on an axolotls limb.

Before I knew what I was doing raising an axie from an egg - he was in a tank with a plant that was riddled with tiny snails & they laid huge amounts of eggs... Which became baby snails & the baby axie happily munched them down - preferring them over the horrible pellets I was crushing up. I liked the mini Eco system that seemed to save my axie from starving am hoping to get a similar balance in his new tank set up using the walstad method



<3 >o_o< <3

 

[Neil C]

Snails and I imagine mussels are often used as vectors by some parasites so this could also be a potential problem for your axolotl although I expect the risk would be extremely small.


Regards Neil

 

[Tappers]

By far the biggest risk in this arrangement is the fact that freshwater bivalves are filter feeders and will starve to death in most filtered aquaria without some very specialised care. This means that the inevitable pollution when they die will be the real problem and may give you issues with ammonia and nitrite.

 

[hacelepues]

Where do you guys get this information from ? Do you honestly think that wild axolotls would have avoided snails ? There may potentially be some problems with large snails getting stuck in the mouths of axolotls or certain species having exceptionally hard shells and cause impaction but on the whole these would be exceptions rather than the rule.
My main concerns with clams would be that one would die unnoticed and stink the tank up, there may also be the potential of a clam closing on an axolotls limb.

I got this information form the Species mixing disasters page of Caudata culture. Also the common sense that snail shells have the possibility to impact axolotls since they are indigestible. Am I wrong? Caudata Culture Articles - Species Mixing Disasters

I don't think that wild axolotls avoided snails, but also compare the # of snails (or clams in this case) per square foot of ground in a tank to the # of snails that exists per square foot in Lake Xochimilco. Statistically, an axolotl is much less likely to encounter enough snails (or clams) in the wild that it would become impacted, due to the likely fact that snail population density would be lower in the lake, and the fact that there are an infinite number of paths to travel through the lake. It is possible that an axolotl may never encounter more than one or two snails in it's lifetime in lake Xochimilco (not guaranteed, but possible). In a small, closed system, like an aquarium, there is no possible way that an axolotl won't notice each and every shell dweller in it's tank.

If they're small enough to eat, too big to pass, and enough of them, the axolotl will become impacted. If they're too big to eat, they can injure the axolotl by trapping them in their shells (if they are clams), or their operculum (if they are snails). It's too much of a lose/lose situation to risk it.

 

[xxianxx]

I got this information form the Species mixing disasters page of Caudata culture. Also the common sense that snail shells have the possibility to impact axolotls since they are indigestible. Am I wrong? Caudata Culture Articles - Species Mixing Disasters

I don't think that wild axolotls avoided snails, but also compare the # of snails (or clams in this case) per square foot of ground in a tank to the # of snails that exists per square foot in Lake Xochimilco. Statistically, an axolotl is much less likely to encounter enough snails (or clams) in the wild that it would become impacted, due to the likely fact that snail population density would be lower in the lake, and the fact that there are an infinite number of paths to travel through the lake. It is possible that an axolotl may never encounter more than one or two snails in it's lifetime in lake Xochimilco (not guaranteed, but possible). In a small, closed system, like an aquarium, there is no possible way that an axolotl won't notice each and every shell dweller in it's tank.

If they're small enough to eat, too big to pass, and enough of them, the axolotl will become impacted. If they're too big to eat, they can injure the axolotl by trapping them in their shells (if they are clams), or their operculum (if they are snails). It's too much of a lose/lose situation to risk it.

I was actually refering to your comment about snails being dangerous not clams. Can you cite your sources for snail density in lake Xochimilco and the inability of axolotls to digest snails ? if you check this link you will see a discussion about snails which i cant be bothered to repeat http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...862-what-do-you-raise-feed-your-axolotls.html The mixing species link you posted is an example of an axolotl with a snail too big to swallow stuck in its mouth, the lesson is not that snails are dangerous but that certain sized snails could potentially cause problems not snails in general. I have about fifteen tanks with snails in and suprising as it may seem they are not full of impacted/choking/constipated amphibians.

 

[hacelepues]

I specifically mentioned size in my comment ("If they're small enough to eat, too big to pass, and enough of them, the axolotl will become impacted."). If the snails are small enough to pass then I don't see the harm. I was referring to snails too large to pass, and in the end, I was talking about how clam shells are similar to snail shells (indigestible), and most clams get too large to pass. Obviously, tiny snails that stay tiny aren't an issue.

It's a general fact in the aquarist hobby that a large enough tank can prevent smaller things having their population decimated by larger things, and this is obviously true for natural bodies of water. My point was, an axolotl is much less likely to encounter live foods in the wild as they are in a 30-40 gallon tank. That is all I was getting at. You don't have to be so hostile...

Anyways, there are other snail cases in the link I provided if you'd look farther than the pictures. I linked it mostly for the story of an axolotl getting cut by a snail, not impaction. And I've seen people on the forums express concern about snails of significant size possibly causing impaction (also damaging axolotl skin).

I'm not surprised your tanks are full of of impacted amphibians since the snails are small.

All in all, in my first comment I was simply drawing a connection that shells can be dangerous to axolotls just like rocks. I don't see what's wrong with that statement.

 

[xxianxx]

All in all, in my first comment I was simply drawing a connection that shells can be dangerous to axolotls just like rocks. I don't see what's wrong with that statement.

The danger is overestimated for both and please dont mistake boredom for hostility.