Taricha colors.

[brian]

Does anyone know if it's more genetic or other factors. As I've seen everything from almost bright yellow to reddish in T. torosa and granulosa. Usually though all members at one locality match though even between both species.

The red was deceptive since I was in T. rivularis range.

 

[nate]

Hi Brian, it's just regional and individual variation. when I lived in the northwest, I've seen granulosa ranging from nearly orange, brown, blackish, and even greenish above and yellow to orange-red underneath. T. t. sierrae is known to be dark-orange to reddish-brown normally.

 

[brian]

Oh, OK so diet probably doesn't play a role that much then I guess.

I was thinking about giving a newt insects gut loaded with high beta-caroteine (spelling?) foods and see if it had an effect on color.

 

[uwe]

I think there are several factors that play a role: genetics, food, sourrounding, temperature and humidity.

Uwe

 

[brian]

It's just that I've noticed where species overlap the colors sometimes are similiar. For instance in Red-Bellied country the California's were very red, while down here the California and Rough-skinned typically match colors at different locations.

I found a genetics article on Taricha, but nothing about the colors which is why I asked.

 

[uwe]

Hi Brian,

there is a big article about comparison of the different species. Also coloration is compared. Maybe this might interest you:
Riemer, W. J. (1958). "Variation and systematic relationships within the salamander genus Taricha." University of California Publications in Zoology, 56(3), 301-390.

What is down here? Where are you located?

Uwe

 

[brian]

Thanks.

I'm located in the SF Bay Area, California so the counties around San Francisco for those not familiar with California (don't know if you are).

I've actually watched Taricha since I was a kid from Sonoma County up north down to San Diego County. The two locations I meant by down here were the newts in Tilden Park in Berkeley/Oakland region and Briones Park (forget city it's in).

I've done a lot of reading on more recent Taricha articles like the Tan & Wake genetic study (can get a pdf if interested), but didn't look that far back.

 

[TJ]

Hi Brian, hi Uwe, I'll be in the SF Bay Area for a couple days in late April, might pass through the Yosemite area on the way to Las Vegas, and would love to photograph some Taricha migrations to & from breeding ponds. Please let me know if there are any places to see so late in the spring. Perhaps there are some higher elevation, cooler places. My understanding, however, is that the show's pretty much over already...

 

[brian]

You might see a few individuals though. Let me look into places. I might forget to say anything, if so just remind me. You will at least be able to see the tail ends of stuff, i.e. a lone individual or two at worst.

If your in Yosemite try to look for Hydromantes, or Bufo canorus.

I'm actually going to go to a spot to look for T. rivularis in a few weeks. I'll see if I find anything.

 

[TJ]

Hi Brian. Well, I'd sure love to see some Hydromantes too. If you hear of any good locations, please send me a private mail at timtim@gol.com , seeing as it wouldn't do to advertise precise locations here

I'm thinking of recruiting Pin-Pin as my guide

Regarding ventral color variation, the situation with Taricha seems similar to that with Cynops here in Japan. A lot of variety, even among individuals in the same location.

 

[uwe]

Hi Brian, hi Tim,

I lived in the SF bay area some years ago and know it quite well. As I am now located in Germany I can not show you around but I can tell you, that there several places to look for certain species. Around SF there are Tarichas, Batrachoseps and Ensantinas as well as Dicamptodon and Aneides. A good place is actually Big Basin State Park.
I Yosemite it depends heavily on the weather condition. In April there sometimes snow at that time. But T.t.sierrae should be active at that time. I know a place to see them on the way to Lake Tahoe.

Hope you get some good information from the people on spot

Uwe

 

[uwe]

Hi Brian,

the PDF would be interesting.

Do you also see T.rivularis around your place?

Uwe

 

[brian]

Well I just looked and the study is almost 1MB in pdf form. So I can't upload it. Do you want it in a email attachment? Make sure you have room for a 1 MB attachment if so. I'll wait until I hear one way or another.

T. rivularis is a hour or two north of me, well the southern limit. I'm going to try to scout out some locations I got off of collected specimens in a bottle at school as well as some locations mentioned in field guides.

 

[uwe]

Hi Brian,

if it is possible please send it to my e-mail address: duamger@yahoo.de.

Thank you

Uwe

 

[brian]

Sent. In theory if it says download unavailable for some reason simply try again later. While torosa is the paper's focus it does talk about rivularis and granulosa spliting off from the ancestoral Taricha stock.