Question: Tank set up issues...please help

[Katie80]

Hello all! I apologize in advance for the long post, just wanted to give as much detail as I could.

I have recently set up a tank for 2 Axolotls, and before I get them I am going through cycling and chemical testing and having some curious issues.

First I set up a tiny tank 2.5 gallon with a tiny bit of sand, water from my tap (not treated at all) and quarantined 6 rosy red minnows and 2 ghost shrimp I purchased to test the water and decor in my 10 gallon tank. They were in their little tank for about 5 days, ate well and seemed happy so when I was confident they were disease free I set up the big tank and dropped them in.

In addition to the same sand (different bag but same product), I added a few small plastic plants, 2 pieces of cut PVC piping that I had sanded slightly to smooth any sharp edge, a few large aquarium rocks and a thermometer. The temp was 50 degrees F, which I was told is recommended for Axies.

The next morning all the fish were dead, but the shrimp were just fine and are still going strong 3 days later. I learned later minnows need warmer water (about 65 degrees) and I was wondering if this in itself could have killed the poor little guys or if I need to keep on the hunt for chemicals before I test with more fish (either more minnows and slightly warmer water, or another small fish that can handle the cold.)

I rinsed the living daylights out of all the gear and decor I put into my tank before I ever put the fish in. After they died I washed it all again, and again with only hot water and no soap. I received a tank divider and a sponge filter, and again rinsed it all and placed it in the tank.

I was hoping someone would be able to give me an idea of what I should do and what steps I should take to rule out any possible causes for the fish dying, but the shrimp staying alive and happy. I really really want to have a good home for my critters and hopefully sooner rather than later, because the breeder I purchased them from has been nice enough to not ship the little dudes until the tank is deemed safe.

Here are a few pictures of the set up. All I want is the best possible home for them so if you see anything I can change please let me know and I wont be offended in the slightest.

Please help me get this were it needs to be and if someone has a suggested game plan for me I would so appreciate it!
Thanks soooo much!

-Katie

 

[dragonlady]

This could have actually been put in the tank section, but if need be, a moderator will move it.

I'm not sure who told you 50 F, but that's really a bit too chilly for axolotls. Have a look here. I keep my tanks about 68 F and everyone does well. There are many who would envy your ability to achieve such low temps though...Are you using a chiller?

It very well could have been the chilly water that killed the fish...Have you checked your parameters? You mentioned testing, so hopefully.

Hope you don't mind a critique, but I really have the welfare of your potential new pets in mind...You mention a 10 gallon and then you mention the "big tank", are these one and the same? If so, a 10 gallon tank is not a big tank. It will not be large enough to support two axolotls, not even one. Axolotls can grow to be a foot long or longer, so they will need space. It's generally recommended to allow a minimum of 1 foot/10 gallons per axolotl - however, bigger is always better as they spend most of their adult lives walking around, rather than swimming. So, hopefully, this is just an interim tank for a couple of tiny juveniles, but if that's the case, you might want to remove that sand if they are too small as it could cause an impaction issue. The rocks look a bit small too. Less than 2" could be swallowed by an adult axolotl. You may also want to check the depth of that sand, over an inch can develop pockets of gas.

If you are planning on juveniles, I wouldn't use a divider unless I saw some problems. I had a very bad experience with a divider and know of some others who have as well. They can shift, or accidentaly get shifted and little ones will try to squeeze through any opening. You have quite a few visual barriers where they can get out of sight of each other. Besides, given space and kept well fed, juveniles can be kept together successfully with few if any incidental nips. Just my opinion as I am not a fan of the divider...

Sorry, if that sounds harsh, but I wouldn't want you to get started off on the wrong foot and have something happen to your new additions. It is great that you are planning ahead though...

 

[carsona246]

When you say you didn't treat your tap water at all, does that mean you didn't add dechlorinator? If that's the case your minnows might have died because of the chlorine. If your tank isn't cycled, ammonia buildup might be another potential cause of the deaths. Do you have water testing kits?

 

[Katie80]

Thanks so much for your quick replies, I really appreciate it. It didn't sound harsh at all, I want whats best for the little dudes, so anything I can do better I am happy to do and can't do without knowing

I haven't gotten a tester yet, I am heading to the store today to pick up a few strips and will make sure it everything is safe before I put more fish in. I didn't add dechlorinator no, but they lived fine in the same water before. Do you think more water could have effected it? I read on buy-axolotls.com if water is safe to drink it's safe for Axies, which is why I didn't start with the dechlorinator.

I'm not using a chiller no, in fact the 50 Degree temp wasn't even as cold as the faucet goes. It is pretty cold here this time of year so I will keep an eye on it. I will make sure the water hits 65 and maintains. Thanks so much for clearing that up, I have read so many different things I'm glad to hear what works for sure :happy:

The 10 gallon is for two juveniles 2.5-3" when I get them and when they hit the 6"-8" mark I will move them to a 20 gallon tank. Funds did not allow for one quite yet, so I will let them grow a bit and make sure they are not stepping all over each-other.
I had no idea the sand was trouble for babies. I have no problem sticking it aside for when they are bigger, what would you recommend I replace it with?

When they are adults (when the store is approximately they size of their heads, but a bit bigger) I will remove them completely. They are very heavy so I was hoping that would make up for the size and still keep them from sucking them up.

Consider the divider removed. I am sure that I wont be able to take my eyes off of them for a while, so if I see any nipping I will be sure to place it back in. I will watch it close if I do replace it, I had no idea there was any potential for damage, thanks for pointing that out.

thanks so much!

-Katie

 

[dragonlady]

Thank you for taking the suggestions given. If your little guys are over 2.5", then I probably wouldn't worry too much about the sand. I would just lower the level to avoid the gas pockets forming that I mentioned before. Any other concerns, etc. don't hesitate to ask.

Have a good one, and of course, please post pics once you have your new additions!

 

[Katie80]

for sure =)

I bought another little fish today, made the water a little warmer, added a dechlorinater and tested the pH level and so far so good. He seems to be happy and the shrimp are doing well too.

I was wondering if you had a suggestion on how long to leave the fish in there before I add the Axies? Do u think a few days would be enough to see if there is anything harmful?

thanks again! :happy:

-Katie

 

[iChris]

I would leave it month before you get a axie to let the tank "age" and establish a sufficient bacterial colony to process the bucket loads of waste that they excrete, especially in a smaller tank you'll find your animal(s) fouling the water in a matter of days.

have a read of this article to learn about biological filtration Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity

in short, axies excrete waste in the form of poop and ammonia which is deadly in large amounts to aquatic life, it comes with the poop, the first type of bacteria breaks down ammonia into nitrite, which is less harmful but still deadly if left unchecked, and the third type of bacteria break the nitrite down into nitrate, which is less harmful than the latter two, and can be absorbed by live plants, or its removed with your weekly water changes. excess food that is left in the tank rots and goes bad, this also produces ammonia.

by adding the small fish you're adding a ammonia source to the tank and kick starting the cycle. the whole process of establishing this colony of bacteria happens on its own and needs no assistance of your own apart from changing about 10% of the water daily to keep the fish alive.

I would also recommend getting a bigger tank, I had trouble keeping 1 axie in a tank that size and it was still only young, I now have a 25 gallon tank for 1 axie, and she is doing very well in it.