Survival of the axo's with cycling

[HitmanSougo13]

Hi I wanted to share some strange findings. Two friends of mine raise axo's after they learned how cute they are. Neither of them use water testing kits. I have been bugging them forever to get those kits. When they do clean their tanks they clear all the water out and the filter too. They don't have th intention of cycling their tanks. They told me the last time one of them cleaned their tank out was 40 days ago (that means no partial waterchanges either) the other had not cleaned their tank for nearly 2-3 months. I have tried to conivnce them to promote cycling but I supper since their axo's are fine it makes it hard to say otherwise.

I am just thinking that theretically their water should have cycled due to the number of days. The thing that is really a mystery is how the axo's survive the high levels of ammonia and nitrites that must have formed in the tank all those days without partial water changes. Does anyone does what level of nitrites in the water is toxic?

 

[Yaimfat]

Hi, I must say that I myself kept an axolotl like this for some time (1 year) as she was a gift and I had little knowledge and went with the information given to my aunt. As much as I love my axie pets are terrible gifts! I also kept her in a 20L tank with impaction size gravel and fed her with pellets that looked like the gravel and she smelt em out (this is what I was told to do). Remarkably she lived in there until she was 25cm when I finally thought, hey something isn't right here. They are definitely FAR MORE hardy than most give them credit for! I would say due to the shear size of her tank she would have lived in around 3ppm of ammonia and nitrites and god knows what nitrates constantly... Still, she only lost a gill to fungus once put in a properly cycled 60L tank before I got my new setup. Luckily I did some research and am now like an axolotl encyclopedia. I bought a second and now have mine in a properly maintained 4ft tank! They love it, check it out in the galleries! I would love more feedback!

 

[MereB]

Their tanks will have cycled by now. Cycling is just what we call the process that goes on while the bacteria set up residence in the filter and tank and will happen whether you watch it closely or not and whether or not you intend to do it. I suspect the bacteria that manages to cling onto the filter and on the contents of the tank during these extreme clean outs will be helping to at least kick start each new cycle to keep it fairly inhabitable for the poor old axos. It's not a good idea to clean out your filter media unless it needs it but I've known plenty that do.

In a properly cycled tank with an appropriately sized filter you will not get readings of ammonia or nitrite as they are converted at the same rate as they are produced so you only need to change the water to remove the nitrate which is infinitely less toxic than the other 2 and can take quite some time to build to levels that would effect an axo. It takes even longer if you have live plants in the tank as they will use a portion of it.

I have several fairly heavily planted tanks and I don't do weekly partial water changes in my tanks once they are cycled. I do test on a regular basis and change water if the nitrate get's too high. I vacuum when it starts to look dirty and remove axie poop as I see and I've not had a problem.
If your tank is cycled and you are still getting readings for ammonia and nitrite then I would suggest you get a bigger filter or find a way to increase the surface are of your filter media so you can get more bacteria in there to cope with the bioload better.

I would guess your friend's success thus fur is more down to a very hearty axies and pure dumb luck than anything else. Animals do tend to build up a tolerance over time if kept in higher than desirable levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, particularly of they rise slowly so the little critters have time to adjust. It doesn't make them happy or healthy in those levels it just means that they have found a way to survive in them.

 

[HitmanSougo13]

I apologize for the typos in my previous message, I was typing using an ipod touch, not necessarily the best writing tool =). Sure Yaimfat, I'd love to check out your album. I was the same too at first. I bought my axos at a pet store where an employee claimed he raised them too back then so I relied on him for everything that was bought that day. Unfortunately, I was told nothing about cycling back then either!

Yes, I figured their tanks must have cycled...er at least they empty out all the water. It's a 100% plus filter water change. Doesn't that mean the cycling process has to start all over again?

The PH in my city is 8.0 does that make the nitrites less deadly?

 

[carsona246]

I apologize for the typos in my previous message, I was typing using an ipod touch, not necessarily the best writing tool =). Sure Yaimfat, I'd love to check out your album. I was the same too at first. I bought my axos at a pet store where an employee claimed he raised them too back then so I relied on him for everything that was bought that day. Unfortunately, I was told nothing about cycling back then either!

Yes, I figured their tanks must have cycled...er at least they empty out all the water. It's a 100% plus filter water change. Doesn't that mean the cycling process has to start all over again?

The PH in my city is 8.0 does that make the nitrites less deadly?

The bacteria grows on the substrate, and objects in the tank too. Even if they took out the filter pads it should still have some beneficial bacteria left in the tank.

 

[jclee]

Does anyone does what level of nitrites in the water is toxic?

Ammonia and nitrate can begin to be toxic at very low levels. I know that, for fish, nitrates are generally considered toxic at ~30-40ppm.

Their tanks will have cycled by now.

This is very possible unless they are cleaning and refilling the tank with regular tap water that has not been dechlorinated, in which case, the chlorine is killing of the existent beneficial bacteria and re-starting the cycle process. The other consideration is that a 100% water change also means different chemical properties, pH, etc. is happening very quickly. I agree that axolotls can survive more than we often realize, but partial water changes are preferable so that there is less shock from adjusting to new water all at once.

It's a tough predicament, given that your friend sees "healthy" axolotls in front of him/her, and so s/he won't change. Maybe referring this person to Axolotls: The Fascinating Mexican Axolotl and the Tiger Salamander and other information would be a good and subtle way to start.

 

[HitmanSougo13]

As far as I can tell, they pour in tap water to fill up the entire tank and put in the water conditioner at the same time. So the 'mixing' of the conditioner and the tap water occurs in the tank. From the labels, the conditioner often state it works in seconds, but I'm sure it probably takes more than that for the stuff to evaporate.

 

[jclee]

As long as they're adding enough dechlorinator to treat the whole tank, that should be fine, actually.

 

[HitmanSougo13]

As long as they're adding enough dechlorinator to treat the whole tank, that should be fine, actually.

Really? You mean I can be lazy for that part too?! I personally have a tank for dechlorinating water. Not sure how treated in the spot tap water may or not affect the biological cycle. I am not sure if I got this right so please correct me. Suppose there is a 10L tank and 1/4 of the water was removed. You fill the tank back up to 10L using tap water. Would that mean you would put in enough water conditioner for the 10L or only the 2.5L that was just added? Somehow overdosing on water conditioner doesn't sound right to me even though the label says it is harmless to overdose.

Thanks for any answers to this question! Knowing this may make some of our lives easier!

 

[jclee]

Well, my knowledge is based on fish keeping (so I hope someone chimes in if this is unsuitable for axolotls and other caudates), but, yes. You can either dose the 2.5 litres in a separate enclosure and then add it, or add enough dechlorinator to handle 10 litres, and then add the 2.5 litres. In the fish keeping world, the latter is sometimes done for larger tanks that require many gallons per change, and owners who have equipment that pumps water directly from a hose into the tank. I've never done it, since my largest tank is a 55G, and I don't have fancy gear, but I've heard/read of a number of fish keepers who do.

 

[morphyrichards]

Most tap water is treated with chloramine. When you add the dechlorinator it breaks the bond in the chloramine and it becomes chlorine and ammonia. I think the better dechlorinators then neutralise the chlorine and ammonia without interfering with the tank cycle, so it's safe to use tap water that has only recently had dechlorinator mixed in.