Illness/Sickness: Sudden FBN deaths

[fouramigos]

Hey everyone!
Well I haven't posted in a bit simply because the FourAmigos and Snipps were doing just fine (FourAmigos were jueveniles and Snipps was a mature female I believe), I'd finally got a semi-aquatic set up for them that they fully enjoyed, and they'd finally started eating regularly and on a regular diet of frozen blood worms, thawed out and hand fed with dull tweezers. They've been doing great, growing, shedding, and not as skittish when I looked at them, unless I look from above the tank, they don't enjoy things from above, so I make sure I tell everyone to look from the sides.
I've had the 4 little guys since April, they wanted nothing to do with water at all, even after I got Snipps who was fully aquatic and spent most of her time in the water. Anyways I gave names to the 4 little ones, Tubs, Buster, Angel and DJ...the last 2 being the smallest of the 4.
Then one day, I look in the tank and I see Angel actually foraging at the bottom of the tank, from there she's been eating in the water and spending a lot of time in there, along with Snipps, no fights have occured, they all seem pretty docile with each other...except at feeding time they can get snappy with each other, so I lure them away from each other at feeding time, besides I like to watch them chase their prey, they're so cute lol!
Anyways, as of yesterday Buster was in the water, a bit on the dramatic side still, but he still ventured under the water and under the rocks, to me this was awesome, finally my newts are maturing and becoming aquatic.
Unfortunately this morning I woke up to Buster dead, then some hours later, I found Snipps also dead and I don't understand what happened. All the newts except for 1 had stopped eating the day before yesterday which I totally found odd, but again I thought it was a part of their maturing, or maybe they had shed and just gobbled up their skin and wasn't hungry.
Now last night I was noticing that Buster's genetalia were HUGE!!!! Just thought again that this was all part of the maturing process. When I found him this morning, he was bloated, and had something white in his mouth, and Snipps had the same thing, is there any disease or illness that has that symptom?
I was also wondering, I do full water changes because I only have about 2 inches of water in there, a bare bottom, with some big rocks at one end of the tank for them to climb up on. I don't have much for plants because again my water level is too low to sustain any plants...I've tried and well I'm left with 3 almost bare plants. But a full water change is needed in my case, and I also clean off rocks because the get poop and food stuck to them, and I also thought it was needed because they produce a toxins.
So folks that's the scoop as of lately, if anyone has some ideas on what may have happened to Snipps and Buster it would be greatly appreciated, thank you all!!!

 

[evut]

I think it could be some bacterial infection. I don't think anybody will be able to tell you for sure.
You should remove the remaining newts and disinfect the whole tank. If the surviving newts are still terrestrial, you can put them on paper towels moistened with dechlorinated water. Keep them cool and observe if they're eating. If you see anything suspicious in another newt, I think refrigeration might be a good idea.

Have a look at the health and Illness section here: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/articles.shtml

 

[fouramigos]

Thanks Eva,
I thought it might be that, but there was nothing on their skin or body that looked out of sorts, could late water change have caused such damage, I've had late water changes before, but maybe this was just a bit late.
I have cleaned out the tanks completely, everything was scrubbed with hot water, I did not use bleach or soap because of residue left behind, I thought hot water would kill anything left over.
I was also wondering, they aren't eating now, could it be because I've cleaned their tank and rearanged the set up, do they get traumatized from that? Again though I have changed their set up before and there was no change, could they be mourning lol! The one little newt Angel that was fluently going in and out of water, has no interest in the water, they've all just been sitting on land and not eating...feels like I'm starting all over again with them, just as they were progressing so much

 

[evut]

I think it might be a good idea to set up a tank which won't need such a drastic cleaning regime. You can have a cycled tank which only requires partial water changes even with a lowered water level. Changes in their enclosure will always stress the animals. If they're stressed and not eating, they can't fight disease well so sorting out a good tank for them is essential.

Perhaps you could post some photos of the animals and their tank so people can make a better assessment of the situation.

 

[Jennewt]

Unless you test the water, there's no way to know if the late water change was the culprit. I suspect that there was something that caused the water quality to go bad, or else they were suddenly exposed to new germs. Any new animals in the house recently?

If they have only 2 inches of water and you have to do total water changes, this is not an ideal long-term setup. It's asking for problems. In agreement with what Eva said: it's generally better to have a setup that is stable long-term with only partial water changes and a stable ecosystem. Probably something a bit larger than what they have had.

 

[fouramigos]

Hey!
Thanks for the responses, I do appreciate them The 3 that are left, Buster, DJ and Angel, are starting to eat again, and Angel has even gone back into the water to explore as of today, so...they seem to be recovering
As for their set up, it's a 20 gallon tank with a screen lid, which I thought was enough room, even more so now that I only have the 3 left. As for the water, I have it that low because they were terrestrial when I got them, and then I got another newt who was bigger and fully aquatic, so I had to put enough water for Snipps to be content, but not too much to freak the juveniles out, making sure that the water was just high enough where they could stand and just pop their heads out of the water for their breath...when they became aquatic.
I tried using a tuckey baster to siphone out the left over food or waste, but the water is too low to do anything with the baster, this is why I would just change the water and rinse off any waste on rocks or plants, never actually scrubbing down everything. But in doing that I had to remove rocks and the plants, which are gladly dying on me bit by bit, and then put it all back in.
They are alone in their tanks, don't even have any snails, there's no filter, and as I said the plants are slowly dying. I would like to have more water in their tank, so I can add a calm quiet filter, and plants...but only 1 of the 3 newts are exploring the water, the rest hang out on the log, or a rock, they do wander around and are partially submersed in water at times, but they're just not as adventurous yet.
I am including some pics, please all the advice or suggestions to help make them happier and the cleaning job easier will be greatly appreciated and obviously need

Note: the 2 newts together are Angel and Buster, Angel is the one in the water and Buster is the one out of water and the biggest of the 3, now DJ is hanging out by himself and he's about the same size as Angel...not quite sure of the sexes though.

 

[evut]

Great to hear the remaining newts are doing well!

You could improve this set up by simplifying it a bit - just one or two larger pieces of stone (or brick/tile/slate/cork bark..) for the land area, the rest could be water with a few smaller stones in it here and there. You could try elodea or hornwort for plants - they don't need substrate and can just float in the water making a nice secure environment for the newts.
To encourage them to go in the water more, you could make the island areas a bit wet (slightly underwater or put some overhanging java moss on them).
If they already go in the water, you could start gradually adding a bit more water. The plants would be good for this - they would offer the animals a secure place where they can hide a bit and be submerged close to the surface.

If you are thinking about adding a filter later, I would recommend an air driven sponge type, they are much more suitable for newts.

 

[fouramigos]

Thanks!!!!
Y'all have been awesome and I appreciate everything you have shared with me! as of yesterday a second newt Buster started exploring the water, he was scratching up against the rocks to start his shed, so I know that they are growing, which is an awesome sign...thos suspicious deaths worried me. I will slowly start removing a rock or two a day, gradually changing their set up. I still have DJ who is water shy, so I'll leave less dry land and as soon as my finances allow I will invest in those plants. Again thanks so much everyone!