Stuff on eye

[daniel]

My youngest axie has a white buildup on her eye and I'm not sure what it is or what to do. I have attatched a picture to help people with diagnosis. The other older axie Medusa has no signs of the same type of thing, so I don't think it is food as they both eat the same stuff. Then again I'm no expert.

Any help would be apreciated!

 

[mik]

Daniel not sure what the problem is but I would sepatate them so that it doesn't spread to your healthy axie.

It looks like some type of infection...possibly fungal. You could try a few drops of an antifungal agent like myaxin or protozin.

But I think perhaps it might be one for a vet.

Anyone else out there with advice for Ben?

 

[daniel]

well this morning it had already spread to the healthy axie, it seems to only effect thier right eye and nothing else. I have a feeling the uneaten feeder guppies may have done it while the axies were sleeping maybe? I'll remove them aswell and check water quality. This sucks as I really don't have much of seperate enclosures apart from 2 plastic carry tank things!

I'll try the drops of antifungal agent and see what happens, then ill try a vet if nothing.

Thanks
Daniel

 

[daniel]

UPDATE: Now that I have seperated the axies into 2 of those plastic travel tank things i've noticed the bigger axie is actually worse! It's got the WHITE stuff on both eyes and on parts of the body. A few other things I noticed were it's gill & tail/fin are in poor looking condition, I saw "looking", because to me, they look in terrible condition although I am not sure, just look all tattered and they really do both look alot more thin & fragile than usual. The other one seems to just look a bit weaker than usual, thinner etc, but for the fungus (assuming that is what it is) it has only built up over the right eye.

I just emptied 50% of the big tanks water, and will run the filter full boar on half the water then add some more when little kid here wakes up, then I will test PH and see what it is.

I might take the bigger axie to the vet tommorrow and see if they think protozin or something is the best thing, if that is what they suggest I'll use a smaller dose on the smaller one as she doesnt seem to be that bad. I have a feeling the bigger one might die from it because it's sunday right now, and if she can go from have nothing yesterday, to what she has now in only 8 or so hours, by tommorrow morning she could be covered

I don't know if this was the right thing to do, or if i was over reacting but apart from the axies (and filter bacteria) everything living in the tank has been destroyed. plants & guppies. I don't want to risk having anymore problems, I think now I will stick to earthworms & bloodworms. I have a 99% bet that the guppies I introduced were the carriers as it was fine before they were put in there

(Message edited by mikki on October 10, 2004)

 

[daniel]

UPDATE #2:
I turned on the filter and i have it in shallow water so the current it creates is strong, it's stirred up the pebbles a bit and there is dead skin in the water, a large amount, would an axie shed its skin? If yes why?

 

[mik]

Axies generally don't shed their skins so if it has I would suggest that it is an automatic reaction to try and rid itself of the infection or a sympton of th infection.

Daniel don't wait for morning do a 10 min salt bath today. For each of them...remember seperate clean containers for each axie & wash your hands - don't use the same net. Don't allow cross contamination.

Your probably right that the guppies were tha carrier. Do any have white spot or similar sad looking coinditions?

PS just editing your last but one update I'm sure you meant White not *hite. Dunno if it means anything in Oz or NZ but it's pretty rude in UK.

 

[kaysie]

Also, turning the filter on that high is DEFINATELY stressful to your axies, which is already in poor condition. I dont know why you would even take out water and turn the filter on higher. It doesn't make much sense.

 

[kim]

Kaysie,

From the way the above posts read i believe that Daniel has move the axies in to different containers and has then lowered the water level and turned on the filter on high in the main tank.

 

[daniel]

Well I wish I had got the posts about the salt bath sooner.

This morning the bigger of the 2 was dead. The smaller one was alive so I checked PH & ammonia of big tank, both were fine (0 ammonia, neutral PH) so I turned down the filter and turned the airstone down and put the smaller one back in the big tank with no plants etc, just a fake cave thing to hide in, I thought i'd do this because the tanks conditions were probably ALOT better than the conditions in the container, the smaller axie only made it to about 7am, I don't understand cos when I woke up at about 5am it was swimming around normally, looking terrible but acting normal, I drifted back off to sleep and when I woke up it was dead.

Well I really have learned from this, I would have never thought such a small little thing would have turned out like this.

I'm wondering if struggling to keep temperatures down could have contributed?

During the day while I was at work temperatures could have easily been in thier high 20's, Sydney summer's coming and since I've never been in this house through summer I never realised how hot this room got (which also isnt good for me so I'm probably moving out, gets so hot in here I wake up with headaches!) I tried putting a bottle of frozen water in the tank but it really didnt effect the temperature much. Would fungus have flourished in warm water?

I think just to be safe I won't get any more axies until I move, I might move to a friends house and the room I would be in keeps generally cool through the summer, doesn't get hot enough to rapidly change water temperature though.

Thanks for your help Mik I didn't actually see your post until today because of the time difference (My posts weren't made at 7am in the morning, more like between 4 and 6pm).

Well I think I will scrub this tank down completely to make sure there's nothing in the filter, pebbles, tank etc that could contaminate animals in the future. I'll make sure I read up on giving salt baths and I'll try and have some of that protozin or whatever is on the Australian market handy aswell. No more feeder fish, and I'll make sure water in the tank stays stable. When I move to my mates house this will be alot easier.

I'll still hang around the forums like I did before I got my 2 axies just to learn stuff.

So to anyone else who might be new to looking after axolotls (like myself) if you see anything that looks abnormal ACT IMMEDIATELY). Less than 2 days (probabaly like 30 hours) after the marks in the top picture, both my axies were dead. In only 12 hours the other axie was infected alot worse than the first (although if internal infection is possible it could have been infected before the smaller one, possibly because I think the bigger axie was the only one that really actually ate the guppies).

If you see the same thing this is what you should do (and I should have done!) based on the advice from this forum..

SEPERATE IMMEDIATELY: If the other axie got infected through its tankmate this would have saved the bigger one, I'd at least still have 1 axie!

Mik reccommends salt bath I'm not sure what this does but his axies are alive so obviously he knows what hes talking about!

I was going to take the worse of the two to the vet this morning (too late now though, I would have gone yesterday but I couldnt find a local one that was open! Most places in Australia close early on sundays like 1pm). Maybe a Vet could have told me how to treat them and I could have saved both.

But also all attempts could have fallen through and I may have lost them anyway.

Well, you can't cry about spilt milk. I'll consider this a learning experiance and make sure I don't introduce the same time of conditions again. Hopefully I can get some more axies down the track when I have moved and try again with more success.

Thanks guys for any help you gave me, if it wasn't for timezones I would have taken all your advise immediately!

Daniel

Kaysie: The filter was on in the tank without animals in it, I just wanted to quickly get it clean after I took the plants and everything else there was small bits of plant left in the water, it just sucked it all up, that was the only reason.

 

[daniel]

Well what a surprise I went to fish the smaller axie out of the tank and it swam away! So it isn't dead but it is probably very close to it. I'm going to go down to the pet store/vet and see what they have for it!

 

[kim]

Hey dainel,

Im wondering weather your new axie came with an infection? This is very possiblle.. where did you get him/her from and did you quartine him/her?

 

[daniel]

I didn't quarantine because I got it from the same place only a week or so later, they were tankmates before.

Maybe I should have anyway?

I baught some anti-fungal agent reccommended at the petshop and put axie in seperate container for treatment. I have a feeling it won't live, but maybe it will work, who knows.

 

[daniel]

It hasn't been a day since I put the axie into the anti-fungal treated water, and it has died.

2 axies lost to a fungal infection in 2 days.

 

[leah]

Daniel- BLEACH that tank before you put anything else in it!!!

From the picture and speed it took over, I'd say columnaris. I've never seen it in an axolotl, but it's common enough in fish, expecially feeders like guppies that are often kept in poor conditions in stores. Did you quarantine the guppies before introducing them to the tank? Guppies AREN'T a cold water fish species- they should have a heater in their water. The chilly axie water could have been enough of a stress to let the bacteria Thrive in the guppies and then spread to your axolotls, who were probably stressed from your warmer water temps.

Columnaris loves stressed animals and water with little circulation. Anti-fungal meds won't work if it is columnaris, but salt baths may help. If you can, pick up some meds specifically for treating columnaris- usually copper sulfate as a main ingredient. If you've used any nets in the tank since you noticed the problem they'll need to be bleached and rinsed well before you ever use them again. It's nasty and really hard to get rid of if you keep reintroducing it into your system inadvertently! Hope your little guy pulls though. Keeping him cool and in pristine water will help with recovery if it's going to happen... good luck!

Here's a link with some more info- http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/columnaris.htm

 

[leah]

Damn. Too late

I'm not an expert, but given the speed it happened I doubt it was anything but columnaris bacteria. Be VERY careful with that tank before you put anything else in it, it's a tough bug and hard to get rid of!

Sorry you lost them

 

[daniel]

As I just posted probably while you were writing your message, it died.


From what I read yes this seems alot like what my axies suffered, thier fins (the skin that forms a fin like thing, anyway on thier back) was practically gone. I will take your advice and bleach everything, odourless bleach right?

I didn't quarantine the guppies, I thought since all the fish came from the same shop it would be alright but obviously I was mistaken. Do you think I should let the pet shop know thier fish may have this sickness?

 

[leah]

As far as I know, fish carry a bit of columnaris bacteria on them normally, and it's only when they're stressed that it's able to take over. You'll see the same thing with most other diseases/parasites- ick, velvet, flukes... stress and poor water conditions usually trigger the outbreak. Columnaris is so awful because it kills them SO quickly, you hardly have time to react before the damage is done

It's a good idea to quarantine any new animal you get, even if it's just going to get eaten. Quite often feeders will have internal parasite infestations or other health problems that will only show up once it's too late. 30 days is the usual quarantine period. Because guppies are easy breeders, you could set up a small tank just for them and allow them to breed, that way you'll know for sure that your food supply isn't contaminated.

As long as you rinse everything REALLY well, it shouldn't matter what kind of bleach you use- just use lots of it! I HATE columnaris!!!

 

[daniel]

Thanks alot. I think next time I will just keep away from feeder fish, they were both much more persistant in catching an earthworm when I would move it away from them when they tried to eat it.. hehe poor fellahs! The guppies they only ate if they came close, theyd maybe chase one accross the tank once then seem to get bored.

I'll probably save bleaching everything until next weekend. Maybe fill up the bathtub I never use with hot water & bleach and put the tank, feeding tanks i used, nets, water siphon in there.

What about pebbles & filter? What exactly should I be cleaning?

 

[leah]

Everything that came in contact with the water since you noticed the problem, with special care to anything porous like the gravel- you'll have to rinse it REALLY well to be sure you've gotten all the bleach off. Bleach has worked for me in the past, just soaping everything did not. Toss all the filter media and give the filter a good scrub- when I had columnaris in one of my betta tanks I got in trouble when I forgot to bleach the net- it started all over again!!! ARGH.

 

[daniel]

Thanks for the help, I'll have a big bleaching session next weekend haha.