Small juvie will NOT eat, weeks on end, extremely lethargic, tried everything

[Canaveral]

Hi all. I have two lotls: one healthy, active 7-incher with full gills, no fungus, and a hearty appetite, and the 2-incher that is mentioned in the title. For a while they were in the same tank with a divider, but a few weeks ago I moved the small one to a goldfish bowl because I was trying to offer her all kinds of food to no avail, and she was leaving so much of it that it was impossible to pick up with a turkey baster. The little lotl came to me regenerating both legs on her left side as well as a gill -I don't know if this has anything to do with the difficulties.

The problems started the day I got her, before I even moved her into the tank. She would ravenously suck up the pellets that the breeder had been feeding her, but after trying to swallow them for about ten seconds, she's spit them back out. Almost like they were too big or too solid for her and she was too easily discouraged. At first I chalked it up to be a stress thing related to acclimation, but it has gotten progressively worse and is now to the point where not only does she refuse food, I can pretty much move her around with little retaliation. She's also extremely thin and pale, and has lost all gill feathers. She has no visible fungus or anything that looks like it might be fungus, and no spots.

Switched to dried bloodworms and the same case was true, though occasionally she managed to swallow one, but usually after a few rounds of trying to swallow any given piece of food she'd give up completely for the time being. Tried dried shrimp -she managed to swallow a de-carapaced one once. Tried frozen bloodworms -no interest. Tried gelled bloodworms -no interest. Tried frozen Daphnia -no interest. Tried tiny frozen river shrimp -she managed to eat a few, but only when fed with tongs. Tried live red worms cut into tiny wriggly pieces -she ate one once about a week and a half ago. That's the last she's eaten anything. Most recently tried tiny live glass shrimp -nope. Unfortunately I have not been able to find live blackworms anywhere.

She does not even realize that there is food in her immediate vicinity unless it is held completely still right in front of her face for a good while. She may think about it briefly, but if it is a moving target she gives up immediately. Forget it if it's resting below her.

She's been in the goldfish bowl about a week and a half, and I do 100% water changes daily. I use Tetra AquaSafe or API Stress Coat. Have tried fridging for a few days in case it's related to fungus or bacteria -no change.

The big tank is still cycling and it gets a 35% water change every day or every other day depending on readings. Tank parameters for the big tank are usually:

Amonia: between 0 and .25
Nitrite: .25
Nitrate: 0
PH: Upwards of 7
Hardness: Very hard
Temp: 73F

She actually seems to have gotten worse in the goldfish bowl, even though it is 100% clean and kept in the 'axolot infirmary' (aka an insulated cooler with an ice pack, leaving the water at 62F). Sometimes she floats, sometimes she doesn't, and when she does it's always because she's intentionally gulped up some air.

At a complete loss for what to. I feel like she doesn't have much time left if I can't figure out what's wrong with her fast. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[pondweed]

The first thing I'm going to say is I don't have any experience with this, but as a thought, if you still have the pellets, have you tried softening them up in water for a bit...? If she liked them, perhaps making them go down a bit easier would help. If they're not a kind that softens, I'm sorry that this will be a moot suggestion! (And I expect if they did soften and you've suspected they might be too large or hard, you'd have tried this.)

 

[Canaveral]

Yeah, I've tried crumbling them. Unfortunately after the first couple of days trying to get her to eat them, she began ignoring them completely.

 

[snuggly time]

Is there anywhere which sells live bloodworm near you? I know blackworms are fed quite often in the US, maybe someone can give you an idea where to get them from.
Have you tried dangling or dropping the food right on her head? I've seen some posts where people have done this and it's got their axie interested in food.

Regarding your dechlorinator. We've found tetra aquasafe can contain Iodine, given the right amount can help an axolotl morph. Just double check the back of your bottle to make sure it doesn't contain iodine. The old bottles don't seem to contain or state it, but the new bottles do.

I really hope she eats soon.

 

[layna]

If her gills have shrunk, do you have a little airstone going so she can get oxygen without having to gulp air from the surface?

I would try live bloodworm, as they are really visible and really wriggly, if you lower the water level, to just a bit higher than her gills so she doesnt have to swim for the bloodworm and drop them on her head, she might begin to show interest

 

[Canaveral]

I haven't been able to find anything but live earthworms, red worms, nightcrawlers, and mealworms. Her water level is also already barely above her gills. No air stone because that water level can't really accommodate an air stone. I have also tried dropping it on her head, tickling her chin with it, tickling her mouth with it -everything.

Great suggestions all, but this is obviously not just picky eating. There is something else going on, and I'm pretty sure that will need to be addressed before she eats anything. She hasn't even *tried* to eat anything or showed any interest in over a week now. I doubt she's going to start eating just because I come up with innovative new ways to present it to her.

 

[Kaysie]

Chop up a nightcrawler into bite-size bits and offer that at the end of a toothpick at night when it's dark.

Do you have any hides?

 

[Canaveral]

I've tried chopping up live red worms into tiny wriggly bits as mentioned, but she only at one, and that was over a week ago -the last she's even tried to eat anything. Do nightcrawlers appeal more than red worms?

 

[mackinthebox]

ive heard a few times on this forum that some lotls will not eat redworms. maybe try from nightcrawlers if you have access.
redworms secrete something that some lotls dont like to eat, from what ive read here anyway

 

[Gailgirl]

Are you in Cape Canavarel? There is a fish store in Longwood (Fishy Business) that sells live blackworms. They were the ONLY thing my juvies would eat at first, and I live over 45 minutes away, and had to make the trek from Lake Buena Vista every ten days til they grew enough to be enticed by tiny earthworm chunks. They seemed to be the perfect combo of bitesized and wriggly, without being scary. It might be worth the drive, if it works out it could be the very thing she needs, especially if you have any other business towards CF.

For earthworms, right now the only thing they'll take is the 30 ct Red Worm cups from the bait cooler at Walmart, nightcrawlers are too large in diameter. The Red Worms they sell at Walmart aren't e. foetida, they're somewhat mislabeled (when they say red worms), they're definitely e. hortensis.

 

[Canaveral]

Thanks so much for the tip!! I'll definitely be making a trip there tomorrow.

 

[Canaveral]

Still no luck. I got some dead black worms, but everybody down here has been out of live ones. She still won't eat, and her limbs that were regenerating are beginning to shrivel. She had a salt bath and is in the fridge now.

After reading through the forums on this, it seems to me that whenever this particular unexplained starvation problem arises, no one actually knows the answer. No one is willing to admit it, but they have no idea what the issue is, so they just suggest different foods.

That isn't going to fix the problem. There is a marked difference between picky eating and literally starving yourself to death. The problem isn't the food, there's something wrong with the axolotl.

 

[FX1C]

Still no luck. I got some dead black worms, but everybody down here has been out of live ones. She still won't eat, and her limbs that were regenerating are beginning to shrivel. She had a salt bath and is in the fridge now.

After reading through the forums on this, it seems to me that whenever this particular unexplained starvation problem arises, no one actually knows the answer. No one is willing to admit it, but they have no idea what the issue is, so they just suggest different foods.

That isn't going to fix the problem. There is a marked difference between picky eating and literally starving yourself to death. The problem isn't the food, there's something wrong with the axolotl.

Why have you given salt baths & put in fridge?? Is there fungus?
Fridging will only slow the metabolism even more.

I would keep this lotl at around 68degF (not in the fridge) in clean fresh water dechorinated & aged 24hrs if possible. Keep calm, quiet, dark & try small earthworms chopped into small bits. Live black worms are worth hunting down - call you local aquarium shop to see if they can order some in for you.

 

[Speckles26]

I am currently dealing with an axi who isn't eating, but he's got different signs, such as his body being swollen. I got a course of antibiotics from my vet because I tried all other options to get him to eat and they all failed. Fingers crossed, things seem to be improving slowly.

I would get your axi to a vet and ask for antibiotics too. If your axi is starving to death antibiotics aren't going to do any more damage than is already being done. If there is some sort of bacterial issue hopefully they'll be able to sort it out before things go terminal. Other than that I don't know what to suggest. It's worth a shot.

 

[Canaveral]

I gave her a salt bath and put her in the fridge because obviously all other roads have been tried and failed. No particular reason to suspect fungus other than gill shrinkage, but doing something different is better than doing the same things I've done in the past expecting different results. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Doing more of the same thing is pointless when it's been thus far unsuccessful.

Today she is swimming (not floating) and resting upside down for the first time. Pretty sure she's on her last leg.

 

[tigmades]

I gave her a salt bath and put her in the fridge because obviously all other roads have been tried and failed. No particular reason to suspect fungus other than gill shrinkage, but doing something different is better than doing the same things I've done in the past expecting different results. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Doing more of the same thing is pointless when it's been thus far unsuccessful.

Today she is swimming (not floating) and resting upside down for the first time. Pretty sure she's on her last leg.

Is there any chance it may have a build-up of fluid? The ones that I had that refused food either had already to shortly after developed fluid build-up, in which case that's a genetic problem that by all accounts I tried to solve but couldn't When they're larger size, it's harder to determine. Floating and lack of appetite are some, as well as the appearance that their limbs are becoming stubbier (perhaps the shrinkage you mentioned?). Please post photo?

 

[Canaveral]

Unfortunately the poor little thing has passed away.

No fluid buildup before death -she was small enough in both length and body fat that any fluid buildup would have been readily apparent. She did, however, definitely have the shrinking limbs. The ones that were regenerating anyway. I didn't take any pictures, but do you by any chance have some of other lotls with this condition?

I will also note that her back limbs also more or less appeared to lose function and become floppy as her condition deteriorated. I know that there is a disease associated with this, but I would not be quick to dismiss the possibility that both the loss of limb function as well as limb shrinkage were due to complete and utter nutrition deficiency.

 

[tigmades]

do you by any chance have some of other lotls with this condition?

Are you talking about the fluid build up?

I've attached some photos so you could see what I mean about the "disappearing hands" thing with fluid-build up cases.

pic 1: the two in the vertical-middle have fluid-build up.
Pic 2: closeup of fluid-build up

Unfortunately I don't have a good pic that shows how their legs look like they disappear, but are in fact just being bloated further out, covering parts of their arm.

 

[Canaveral]

Ah, no I don't think it was this. She looked emaciated. (Because she was.) And her arms didn't just appear to shrink, they LITERALLY stopped re-growing and began to....'absorb' the under-developed feet. It wasn't fungus eating them, because they never fell off, just literally got smaller and smaller until the toes began to fuse together. Like, literally reverse growth.

 

[kapooey]

omg. My axie is like that now!!!I mean, he/she is not eating at all for almost 2 weeks. I didn't give him a salt bath because he/she was floating and can't go all the way to the bottom, so I put him/her in the fridge. Now he/she is in a small tank, I change water everyday but still, not eating at all. I just bought some live black worms tonight, hopefully he/she will eat it=/