Simple Question on pH Tweaking

[t0astiez]

Hey folks, I've read around the boards here and on articles on Caudata Culture that it is not a good idea to use pH Up/pH Down products to control the pH in your tank. Wish I would have gotten that info earlier as I just bought pH Down yesterday; Oh well.

My question has two parts, however both are mainly out of curiosity rather than necessity (my pH is up around 8, just want to bring it down a little).

What specifically makes the pH Up/Down unsuitable for caudates? Is it harmful or just "useless"? If harmful, how/why?

and What would be a better choice to control pH in either direction? Are those 'pH Neutralizers' manageable?

I just couldn't find any information specific to this subject, and help is appreciated!

 

[dragonlady]

I don't know what you are keeping - I keep FBTs and axolotls primarily and just find that it is easier for them to adjust to my natural pH (7.8 from the tap) rather than try to adjust the pH. PH chemicals can cause irregular fluctuations that can be very harmful and the chemicals are not always reliable. I also prefer not to use any unnecessary chemicals in my tanks as they can also interfere with your beneficial bacteria colonies.

Normally, if you use the same water source for water changes, etc. - the pH should remain stable. If it is not, there is something else going on within your tank. Excess food and/or wastes can definitely raise pH. The higher the pH, the more toxic other levels can become. For example, .25 ammonia may not cause harm at 7.0 but at 8.0 it could prove deadly.

Hope this helps! Take care.

 

[Abrahm]

Well, the problem with pH up/down is that they are somewhat high concentration bases/acids. These are actual caustic compounds and can in many cases easily swing pH greatly. One of the first things you should understand is that pH is a logarithmic scale. That means that if your pH is 8 and you drop it to 7 you now have 10x more hydronium ions (basically acid) if you go from 8 to 6 you have 100x more.

The basic reason for discouraging the use of pH changing chemicals is that they are unnecessary. Newts are quite adaptable to a wide range of pH conditions. Newts are also much healthier and stress free in situations where the pH does not go through periodic sharp changes. When you use tap water at the pH it leaves the tap you have a steady, stable environment for your newt. If you attempt to change the pH with chemicals every time you do a water change there will always be differences, often significant that will cause stress to your newt. Far more than what may be caused by a slightly higher than wild pH.

With a pH of 8, you are completely fine. Trying to change your pH will be a lot of effort for very little gain. High pH systems are generally that way because of carbonate buffering systems which are basic. Buffers, are chemical groups that make it difficult to change the pH of a system it would take a lot of pH down to have any effect and you would be adding a lot of sulfuric acid (the acid of pH down) to have any impact. I would just return the pH down if you can.

 

[Jennewt]

My water is also pH 8 and I don't adjust it. I agree with all the above comments from Shannon and Abrahm, except for one point. Decay in the tank (and there is always SOME decay going on, even in the healthiest tank) will lower the pH slowly over time. Decay and metabolism release acid. A typical aquarium pH may drop gradually over time, depending on how diligent the owner is with doing water changes. So starting from tap water at pH 8 is not a bad thing, since it has farther to fall before it becomes too acidic. Shannon is correct that ammonia is more toxic at pH 8, but if the cycling process is monitored this shouldn't be a problem. I haven't found an ammonia level of .25 to be deadly at pH 8, but I do try to prevent it from going any higher than that.

 

[jclee]

I agree with the above posters that, depending on the species your keeping, there's a good chance that you do not need to alter the Ph. If you are still looking for ways to make it more acidic, look into driftwoods, oak leaves, or the more commonly used peat moss (to put in with the filter -- not somewhere where it may pose a choking hazard).