Setting up my new tank.

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axowattyl

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Hi All,

I'm in the act of setting up a new tank for my son, so he can have some axolotls.

Before I found this forum I had already filled the bottom of the tank with rocks and gravel.

I want to have plants, so I've gone through picking all the smaller rocks out by hand and left only stuff larger than the head of any axolotl I have ever seen.

I would like to top this with sand to fill the gaps between the rocks both for looks and to stop food and poo from falling in the gaps.

The tank is a standard 4 footer with an internal power head filter that sticks to the side of the tank with suction cups.

I hope to put 6 young axolotls in there to begin with, then maybe reduce that to a male and 2 nice ladies as they mature.

I have done some searches but would like to ask:

Is beach sand ok if rinsed? I'm near the beach so that would be easy.

Is rain water with some aquarium salt better than tap water with conditioner? My thinking is the aquarium salt would have to be better than whatever nasty minerals might come from tap water.

Thanks for any advice in advance.
 
It's good to know you removed the gravel nice and early! Honestly, I don't really know about beach sand but I wouldn't risk it.. Pretty much every beach or beaches around have pipes leading out and pollution who knows what nasties lay in there. Head to bunnings or mitre 10 for some play sand and rinse well.

How strong is the filter current?

I don't know how well aquarium salts replenish all minerals, I've been using tap water with dechlorinator in it, called prime. It removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia, detoxified nitrites and nitrates and helps with their coating never had a bad experience with it for 3 years.

How are you cycling the tank and how are you planning to feed them? How many hides are you planning on having?

P.s why 6 reduced to 3?
 
hayleykahnita said:
It's good to know you removed the gravel nice and early! Honestly, I don't really know about beach sand but I wouldn't risk it.. Pretty much every beach or beaches around have pipes leading out and pollution who knows what nasties lay in there. Head to bunnings or mitre 10 for some play sand and rinse well.

How strong is the filter current?

I don't know how well aquarium salts replenish all minerals, I've been using tap water with dechlorinator in it, called prime. It removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia, detoxified nitrites and nitrates and helps with their coating never had a bad experience with it for 3 years.

How are you cycling the tank and how are you planning to feed them? How many hides are you planning on having?

P.s why 6 reduced to 3?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, I'll answer one by one.

Our beach is absolutely pristine, no pipes or pollution here. It's well out of town and if the locals didn't lynch any polluters, the regular council inspectors would.

Filter current is mild, and I have the outlet near the surface pointing the length of the tank.

I would have thought that salts designed for the purpose added to pure country rain water would be better than treated tap water, but I'm certainly open to the advice of people with more experience.

I am reading the sticky on cycling the tank which is very new to me, but I'll try the fishless cycling method.

I'm planning to feed them on garden worms predominantly, as I have an ample supply. We have a creek at our back gate with heaps of little guppy type things, but I probably better put them in a small tank with some general type of medication for a week before using them, so that might just be a treat. Our beach has a type of saltwater clam called a "pippi", and I was thinking of trying them as well to see if they like them.

I've read that 2 hides per axie is the go, so I'll do that.

I wanted to start with 6 so I increased my chances of nice breeding mates. Once that had been established and they got bigger, I'd reduce the numbers to let them grow out comfortably.

The axies that were being removed would only be put in another tank, or given to another person who wanted them.

I've had heaps of aquariums/fish in my life, so most likely I'll just start another tank for them.
 
Sounds like you got some good info on you!

Ahhh I'm not sure where abouts you are from, but a non polluted beach and country makes me think you don't live around a main city. Where are you?

I'm on the eastern suburbs a few beaches down from Bondi Beach, the beach to the south of me (not far at all) was once one of Australia's dirtiest beaches as sewerage pipes were installed there. Nasty stuff. We had a leak a few months ago and the phosphates(?) were off charts so I just never trust the beach water near me or the sand.

Our water supply is probably different then too, our water isn't too soft and not too hard and reads less than .5 ammonia so I'll let someone with more experience help you out on the salts. You can also search for threads with keywords.

With worms just be sure there aren't chemicals or pesticides used on your garden and you're 100% right with quarantining the fish as they can carry bugs and transfer to your lotls. As for the pipis (so delicious) i would do more research on them as they aren't a typical food source an axolotl would encounter in the wild. I'm also concerned about the saltwater issue, I know people use prawns as treats and soak them in fresh water, so it may be a possibility. I've never come across a pipis nutritional value in regards to axolotls, they may be too high in one mineral or too low etc.
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods2.shtml that's a link to acceptable food sources with nutrtional values. Keep in mind high fat foods can lead to organ failure.

What kind of axolotls do you want to hopefully breed :) ?
 
Last edited:
hayleykahnita said:
Sounds like you got some good info on you!

Ahhh I'm not sure where abouts you are from, but a non polluted beach and country makes me think you don't live around a main city. Where are you?

I'm on the eastern suburbs a few beaches down from Bondi Beach, the beach to the south of me (not far at all) was once one of Australia's dirtiest beaches as sewerage pipes were installed there. Nasty stuff. We had a leak a few months ago and the phosphates(?) were off charts so I just never trust the beach water near me or the sand.

Our water supply is probably different then too, our water isn't too soft and not too hard and reads less than .5 ammonia so I'll let someone with more experience help you out on the salts. You can also search for threads with keywords.

With worms just be sure there aren't chemicals or pesticides used on your garden and you're 100% right with quarantining the fish as they can carry bugs and transfer to your lotls. As for the pipis (so delicious) i would do more research on them as they aren't a typical food source an axolotl would encounter in the wild. I'm also concerned about the saltwater issue, I know people use prawns as treats and soak them in fresh water, so it may be a possibility. I've never come across a pipis nutritional value in regards to axolotls, they may be too high in one mineral or too low etc.

What kind of axolotls do you want to hopefully breed :) ?
Click to expand...

I'm on the outskirts of Port Macquarie.

The beaches are simply perfect, I've traveled the world and haven't seen better.

Not sure what type I plan to breed, moreso just big and healthy will do me. I'd really just like a bunch of mixed and unusual colors.
 
Ahhh yes port Mac, I was up there last year at the Iron man marathon it is very beautiful and looks like the locals really respect their area. Shame you aren't closer, I'm looking for close breeders but have no luck.

Good luck with raising your babies!
 
It will probs be best to add play sand over beach sand as its a tried and tested method and works well.
Its a good idea though as the axies may be tempted to try and eat the rocks :p and as you have said, will stop food and waste getting stuck underneath the rocks.

As for the rain water i cant tell you why/why not to use it but i wouldnt want to start playing with aquarium salts and rain water as axies are sensitive to their water conditions.
Treated tap water is absolutely fine in most cases and a lot of people on here use it, besides its easier imo than collecting and treating rain water, what happens in summer if it doesnt rain?
Youve said you need to cycle your tank before you add the axies, have a read of this to help you;
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling-148283.html
Just swap out the 90% water change at the end to daily 30% changes to reduce the nitrate.

Also how hot does it get in summer over there? Do you have a chiller?
I personally wouldnt raise 6 axies then move them around to new tanks ect id just get two or three first to get used to them and their needs then if you want more, get more :D

It sounds like your axies will have a nice life with lots of juicy worms :)

 
layna said:
It will probs be best to add play sand over beach sand as its a tried and tested method and works well.
Its a good idea though as the axies may be tempted to try and eat the rocks :p and as you have said, will stop food and waste getting stuck underneath the rocks.

As for the rain water i cant tell you why/why not to use it but i wouldnt want to start playing with aquarium salts and rain water as axies are sensitive to their water conditions.
Treated tap water is absolutely fine in most cases and a lot of people on here use it, besides its easier imo than collecting and treating rain water, what happens in summer if it doesnt rain?
Youve said you need to cycle your tank before you add the axies, have a read of this to help you;
The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community
Just swap out the 90% water change at the end to daily 30% changes to reduce the nitrate.

Also how hot does it get in summer over there? Do you have a chiller?
I personally wouldnt raise 6 axies then move them around to new tanks ect id just get two or three first to get used to them and their needs then if you want more, get more :D

It sounds like your axies will have a nice life with lots of juicy worms :)
Click to expand...

Yes, very hot and my tank is 23 deg C already and its only spring.

My chiller is on its way and cost twice as much as the entire tank setup, but I think I'll be pushing it uphill without it.

Thanks for the advice.
 
So far so good!

I did use rain water and beach sand, as that's what I have handy.

The sand rinsed very nicely, and came up quite clean.

All I've put in so far is some plastic plants, as I want to make all of the hides with simple items I can just lift out when I'm cleaning.

I treated the water with the required amount of API quick start, which apparently has the good bacteria in it.

I ran the tests with my API freshwater master kit and the readings were well within spec, with the exception of the PH which was a little high (rainwater), so I added a little PH down.

Absolutely zero ammonia/nitrate/nitrite.

The cycling business looks pretty complicated...can I just let it run "in spec" for a week?
 
There are two ways to go about it, fishless and fish in.
Fishless involves setting up and running your tank with everything except the axolotls.
You need a daily ammonia source (bottle of pure ammonia from the hardware store is easiest) you add a drop or two everyday.
After a week or so, start testing your water and you will see high ammonia, low nitrite and no nitrate.
Then as they cycle starts to kick in ammonia will drop to 0 and nitrite will rise, you may get low nitrate.
The final stage is to get readings of no ammonia and no nitrite, but high nitrates.
Then you do partial daily water changes of around 30% to bring the nitrate down to 40ppm or less.
The whole time you need to be adding a drop of ammonia daily, but do no water changes.

The other option is fish in cycling.
You add your axies to the tank, with everything set up and running, but you need to keep and eye on the water parameters AND do a water change of around 30% to the tank daily.
You cant skip a water change with the fish in cycling as the ammonia and nitrite will get too high and become toxic to your axies.

When your tank is completely cycled you will get readings of;
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - <40
You should always have nitrates, however low, if your tank is cycled.

Both methods will take a while to get the tank fully cycled but its up to you which you deem easiest.
If you have access to some filter media (a bit of filter sponge or ceramic noodles ect) from a cycled freshwater tank, you can add it to your filter, or near your filter and it will speed up the cycling process tenfold! :D

Just as a side not, i wouldnt be tempted to start messing about with chemicals (ph up/down) ect as axies absorb things through their skin and it can cause damage to them, axies are okay in a ph range of of 6.5 to 8.0, but 7.4 to 7.6 is the best for them.
If your rainwater ph is that out of wack, i would suggest to use treated tap water instead.

Hopefully your chiller will arrive and make it an axie friendly temp :)
 
The problem I'm having is there are SO many conflicting opinions, all delivered as absolute gospel on the internet.

Check this out:

Guide to Axolotl Husbandry

It specifically mentions using a salt solution in soft water as a PH buffer and disinfectant, not to mention giving the hardness that I'm coming to understand that this animal needs. This was a colony they'd been breeding since 1967 or something, and they are a university.

Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that people are kind enough to offer advice, but there are a lot of different opinions out there.

I spoke to an old lady today who I plan to buy some axies off day after tomorrow.

She said they were 4-5 months old and 20cm long (big for that age?), and that the parents were 35-40cms long (enormous in any mans language) and she'd been offered hundreds of bucks for them (the parents).

She said she kept them in 2 foot tanks with no filters/bubblers, and changed a bucket of water once a week with fresh untreated Sydney tap water (which I certainly wouldn't drink).

She did say she kept them out of the heat and used the occasional block of ice to cool them, and get this, she feeds them nothing but LAMB STEAK!

My point is, are we over thinking this?

I'm going there and will see if her story is BS, but if it's true I'm going to stop trying too hard.
 
If i sound harsh, i apologise, its not my intention but from reading part of that website alone, you can see that the woman is not offering proper care to her axies :(

Taken from the website "The salts restore hardness after water treatment and help us maintain the animals' health by discouraging parasites and fungus. Extra salts are not essential, however, if you are attentive to good husbandry practices and the water is hard and free of chemicals and heavy metals. Keep the pH between about 6.5 and 8. If pH is at the high end of this range, monitor ammonia carefully because its toxicity will be greater than at neutral pH."

Tap water generally has the correct hardness and has been filtered to reduce nasties, thats why its recommended to add dechlorinator and tap water :D
Im sure many people use many different methods and their axies may be thriving but as a general, most people use treated tap water and have no problems, so if its there in your house, contains what it needs to contain and does the job, why use anything else?

Yes you dont have to have a filter, and yes you dont have to have an air stone, but then assuming you dont have an abundance of plants in the tank, you would likely have to do daily water changes :/
Axies arent fish and require different care to keep them healthy and thriving.

Your point is, are we over thinking this, imo filling a tank with water, a filter and an airstone, then letting it cycle, doesnt require much effort or thought for the sake of keeping an animal thriving :p
I guess my point is, if hundreds of people use the same methods and the same things that work, keeps the animals healthy and requires little effort, why risk anything else? :D
 
layna said:
If i sound harsh, i apologise, its not my intention but from reading part of that website alone, you can see that the woman is not offering proper care to her axies :(

Taken from the website "The salts restore hardness after water treatment and help us maintain the animals' health by discouraging parasites and fungus. Extra salts are not essential, however, if you are attentive to good husbandry practices and the water is hard and free of chemicals and heavy metals. Keep the pH between about 6.5 and 8. If pH is at the high end of this range, monitor ammonia carefully because its toxicity will be greater than at neutral pH."

Tap water generally has the correct hardness and has been filtered to reduce nasties, thats why its recommended to add dechlorinator and tap water :D
Im sure many people use many different methods and their axies may be thriving but as a general, most people use treated tap water and have no problems, so if its there in your house, contains what it needs to contain and does the job, why use anything else?

Yes you dont have to have a filter, and yes you dont have to have an air stone, but then assuming you dont have an abundance of plants in the tank, you would likely have to do daily water changes :/
Axies arent fish and require different care to keep them healthy and thriving.

Your point is, are we over thinking this, imo filling a tank with water, a filter and an airstone, then letting it cycle, doesnt require much effort or thought for the sake of keeping an animal thriving :p
I guess my point is, if hundreds of people use the same methods and the same things that work, keeps the animals healthy and requires little effort, why risk anything else? :D
Click to expand...

No absolutely no problem, you didn't sound harsh at all (I probably did).

I guess my point is isn't it always Murphys law....

We go to all this trouble and some old grandma knocks out the biggest lotls on earth with a bucket of tap water and a handful of lamb steak.

Of course her claims are unverified.

I'll leave this water in, as all my substrate come off the beach and will likely have hardened my rainwater (which is on tap right near my aquarium) a bit, but I'll do future water changes with treated tap water.

I might even rig an inline charcoal filter to remove the chlorine as I run it into my tank.

Of course like all things there's just so many ways to get a result.
 
Yeah i totally agree, but i suppose only having 5 lottles as my pets and working full time, i look for the easiest option to maintain 4 tanks (i also have shrimp and goldfish) on a budget haha. Also for me, lottles are my first aquatic pets and i wouldnt want to push the boundaries and try new things for fear of killing them :eek:
 
My chiller turned up today!

Now this is a handy bit of kit for the Aussie aquarist.

It's a Hailea HC 100A. 330 bucks delivered, does about 400L which is almost twice the size of my tank.

I bought an extra power head to run it separate to my filter, and hooked it all up this afternoon.

I drained half the tank and filled it with TAP water, then added the rest of my bottle of API quick start.

I fired it all up again and after a couple of hours it's all sitting a 20 deg C. Normally 24 deg C minimum this time of the year and warming up every day as Summer approaches.

I must say that I'm impressed with this unit, but the housing vibrates loudly (made in China).

I could probably quieten it a bit by taking the housing off and adding some padding or silicone here and there. I'll look into it if it becomes a drama.

I've seen my cichlid tanks go over 30 deg C in summer, so I'm sure this is money well spent.

I've set it at 20 deg C so as not to work it too hard, and so I can drop it to 14 deg C (if it will do it) in the hope of triggering breeding.

Being a Chinese cheapy, time will tell regarding longevity...
 
How much did it cost you?
 
Quite pleased with this unit!

It took a while last night to bring the water down to the desired temp (20 deg C), but I got up this morning and it was 19.1, and 2 hours later it's still at 19.2.

Obviously that's during a cool night and today will be pretty hot, but it's certainly not cycling on and off heavily at the moment.

Another trick is to start it in the evening, so the cool night helps it reach the desired temp easier.
 
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