Setting up a spongefilter for babies

[Phantomlink]

I have 4 baby axies, the two largest are about two and a half inches now so I know they dont produce as much ammonia as adults.

I plan to setup a 10 gallon I have for them to grow up in, then move to a 20 gallon long, then a 40g breeder in the end. I only have experience cycling HOB/Canister filters for my aquariums I've used a sponge before but that was for fry. Will the babies give off enough ammonia to help cycle the spongefilter itself with water changes by me? I have no idea how much ammonia to add to the water for a spongefilter and these guys arent fish. Usually its 4-5ppm but I have a feeling I dont need it that high to kickstart the cycle for my babies

So ya... how much PPM do I need for a sponge, and do you think it would be ok to throw it in fresh with waterchanges until its fully cycled?

 

[tigmades]

Some honest advice: skip the in between set ups. Start cycling the 40 gallon breeder tank using one of the many methods you can find out on the net They will outgrow the 10g faster than you can blink (my juvies grew 0.5-1" a week when they got to 2.5"!), and it's quite a bit of work to cycle 3 tanks. They'll LOVE the space right off the start!

You could keep them in the 40gal while you cycle the tank - with only 4 axies that size, they shouldn't produce too much ammonia (you should still measure for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate daily), and it should be an easier transition. Just make sure ammonia levels stay under 1.0, nitrite stay under 0.3 and nitrate stay under 40. If you can get ahold of seeded material, you may be able to skip cycling all together (such as a used filter from an established tank).

I kept mine in 12"x9" dollarama containers until they were 5.5" then they all went into the 5 foot tank that was seeded. I'm doing daily water changes of 30-50% to keep ammonia levels below 1.0, but in just 3 days I'm already seeing nitrites, so it shouldn't take too long. If you're careful, you can do it safely.

If you'd rather not cycle with your axies inside, what I would do is something similar - keep them in 12"x9" containers until they're around that size (these containers are still somewhat small so easy to do 100% water changes every 1-2 days, rather than a 10g+ tank), until your 40g breeder is ready.

The way a tank cycles is this: enough bacteria will grow to convert the amount of ammonia in the tank to nitrites, then another bacteria will convert those to nitrates. If they're small, they'll give off smaller amounts of ammonia, so you won't need as much beneficial bacteria to grow. As they get bigger, more beneficial bacteria will grow to deal with the increased amount of ammonia waste. You won't find yourself with "excess beneficial bacteria" because if there's not enough ammonia, they'll starve - so you will only have ENOUGH beneficial bacteria in a tank to deal with the current output of ammonia I wouldn't add ammonia to the tank, if you choose to cycle with axies. A 40g tank should definitely have enough water volume to be fairly safe cycling for 4 tiny axies.

 

[LittleFrog]

What Ashley said! I just brought home two axies from her about a week ago, they're around 3 inches right now, and I have them in my 3 foot 40 gallon tank with no problems! I just don't have it filled all the way right now, I've got it filled to just under the halfway mark, and will gradually increase the water depth as they grow.

Also, if you happen to know anyone with established, disease free tanks, ask if you can get squeezings from their filter media. It can really help to jumpstart the cycling process a lot!

 

[Phantomlink]

Some honest advice: skip the in between set ups. Start cycling the 40 gallon breeder tank using one of the many methods you can find out on the net They will outgrow the 10g faster than you can blink (my juvies grew 0.5-1" a week when they got to 2.5"!), and it's quite a bit of work to cycle 3 tanks. They'll LOVE the space right off the start!

You could keep them in the 40gal while you cycle the tank - with only 4 axies that size, they shouldn't produce too much ammonia (you should still measure for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate daily), and it should be an easier transition. Just make sure ammonia levels stay under 1.0, nitrite stay under 0.3 and nitrate stay under 40. If you can get ahold of seeded material, you may be able to skip cycling all together (such as a used filter from an established tank).

I kept mine in 12"x9" dollarama containers until they were 5.5" then they all went into the 5 foot tank that was seeded. I'm doing daily water changes of 30-50% to keep ammonia levels below 1.0, but in just 3 days I'm already seeing nitrites, so it shouldn't take too long. If you're careful, you can do it safely.

If you'd rather not cycle with your axies inside, what I would do is something similar - keep them in 12"x9" containers until they're around that size (these containers are still somewhat small so easy to do 100% water changes every 1-2 days, rather than a 10g+ tank), until your 40g breeder is ready.

The way a tank cycles is this: enough bacteria will grow to convert the amount of ammonia in the tank to nitrites, then another bacteria will convert those to nitrates. If they're small, they'll give off smaller amounts of ammonia, so you won't need as much beneficial bacteria to grow. As they get bigger, more beneficial bacteria will grow to deal with the increased amount of ammonia waste. You won't find yourself with "excess beneficial bacteria" because if there's not enough ammonia, they'll starve - so you will only have ENOUGH beneficial bacteria in a tank to deal with the current output of ammonia I wouldn't add ammonia to the tank, if you choose to cycle with axies. A 40g tank should definitely have enough water volume to be fairly safe cycling for 4 tiny axies.

Thanks for the info, I do know about bacteria levels, I got some large fish tanks from 75-125 gallons all around the apartment

What I'm worried about though is I dont have access to any Daphnia till later this month at the earliest. The 4 babies were in the same clutch of eggs and I got them all the same size but now there are clearly size differences. They only eat when I put the bloodworms infront of their face they wont go hunting. I have no idea how I'm going to feed them once they're in a tank because they're still so small I cant use a clip device to put the food down into the tank for them.

They grow slowly, they're at least 3 months old that I know of and they seem small to me. Heres a thread of how big they all are

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...toma-mexicanum/90230-too-soon-setup-tank.html

Here is a picture of them shortly after I bought them

Also, the main issue I have is, I dont have the 40g breeder right now but if they can live in a 12x9 ( how tall is it? ) container until they are at least 4 inches long and finding food for themselves I should be able to have it ready by then. Mine aren't growing anywhere near as fast as yours did, either they arent eating enough or the lack of live food is stunting growth

 

[tigmades]

The containers were 5" tall I believe? $2 each at dollarama Do you have access to white worms? Check around with your local aquarium forum (of you have one) - if not, you can find sources in Canada that aren't too expensive. Try those - tweezer-feed them as much as they'll take, 2-3x a day.

If you'd rather avoid that, take frozen bloodworms and chop them in half. then you can take a syringe, suck it up, then spray it over top of the axies. They move while falling, so they should snap at them, then you can suck up what they don't eat, and leave some out to test if they'll eat on their own (for feeding in a large tank, syringe method works well!).

The only downside to having a shallow 40g tank is there's a lot less water to buffer water parameters... it's probably best to move them in once they start eating on their own. For my hatchlings that are currently 2.5-3" I spray defrosted bloodworms (without cutting them) over each axies head (at least 5 or so), then leave them. By the time I come back for the next feeding, they've sucked up everything that made it to the bottom. I have 6 axie hatchlings that are still 1.2-2" that refuse to eat bloodworms, so I still give them 7-12+ whiteworms each (As much as they'll eat) 2-3x a day.

 

[Phantomlink]

I'll have to look for those, 5 inches is decent to swim around in to grow. I live in a small city so the only live food I can get here is live worms for when they're adults. I have to go about two hours out of town to get my Daphnia and hope those cultures live and thrive to feed them for a long time. I've heard about blackworms but saw they are a hassle to keep alive. I tried Brine shrimp but every time it fails. I do hatch some but the water is never orange like in all the videos you see online.

I did try the syring method for the brine shrimp and I injected them slowly above the axies and they did snap alot. I could try this with the blood worms I might just have to buy one with a larger hole. I'll try to do more feedings, I do work 12 hour shifts so it makes it hard on work days. I'll look into whiteworms though

Edit: Forgot to mention, the reason why I was going with the 40g breeder is because I like the width of the tank. I have one setup for my live plants and corydoras and all other tanks are 12 inches wide unless its a 75g tank or larger. I find the 18" width is great while still staying under 4 feet of length

 

[tigmades]

Black worms hard to keep alive?? hardly.... I had 1lb last me 4 weeks (I still have some alive 5 weeks later!) for 6 juvies that started eating them around 3", and 40+ hatchlings that started eating them chopped at <1.5" I believe.

Personally, if you can get the blackworms, GET THEM! My guys grew like weeds and I had to order mine from BC (so $35 for 1lb, plus $50 shipping (though I ordered a few other things; my share of airport to airport shipping) was definitely worth 4 weeks of food for my babies!

Heres what I did:

1lb black worms, kept in one of the $2 dollarama containers in the fridge. I kept a second container of refridgerated water in there too, and every day I topped up the $2 worm-filled container with cold tap water, waited for worms to settle then slowly poured the dirty water out at a corner. When worms started getting near the lip, repeat (fill with water, pour as much out as possible without dumping worms all down the sink). Then add refrigerated water enough that they're just covered, then take what I needed for feeding, close the container (I did NOT put holes in lid) then back in the fridge it went.

I didn't add food, I only changed water every day. Around 3 weeks they started to die off, but I just picked all the dead ones out with tweezers (one day it took me an hour but that was a day after I forgot to change water) and voila!!

Seriously, had I known about the awesomeness of blackworms, I would have gotten them earlier, as I had such a hard time with bbs. White worms should work well for the first 2 weeks of life (I tweezered some above each axie head every day), then chopped blackworms, then blackworms.

Agreed with the 40gal. width! One reason why I went custom rather than going for a 55gal. I could make the footprint size i wanted that would suit my inhabitants

 

[Phantomlink]

I got two phone numbers from a member on here for live food in the GTA, one sells Daphnia and some other zooplankton type animal I'm not sure what it was, and the other guy had blackworms. I'll do some more research but most places said if you have a bad batch of worms, they die pretty fast