Sand or Gravel?

[kwarzym]

When I was first getting newts a couple years back, I remember having to get larger gravel than the usual typical fish gravel because the newts could supposedly ingest the gravel, which would be bad. However, a lot of your setups (which look awesome) have sandy bottoms. Does this cause eating problems? Is it harsh on the newts skin? Or am I just overthinking it?

 

[evut]

Most people will recommend either bare bottom tanks or sand. I think sand is great because newts can walk comfortably on it and if they swallow a bit, it just passes through them. I have a terracotta saucer to make feeding bloodworms a bit easier. The newts are very good at making a mess and throwing the bloodworms everywhere but they are very good at picking them off the sand anyway.
I currently have my tanks set up in the Walstad style with potting soil under a layer of sand. Plants grow like crazy which is great for the newts.

 

[kwarzym]

Would a sand/gravel mix be beneficial for the tank? I have long had my tank with the medium-large size gravel, but I have had only mixed success with plants (java moss and java ferns = multiplying, other plants either stay about the same or die off) and I was wondering if it had to do with poor substrate, as it is just the gravel and two pieces of wood, plus the fish waste (which was originally just a few White Mountain Cloud fish, and now just one).

I have only recently learned of the walstad method (just today in fact), and I wonder if that can be undertaken in a fairly established aquarium, albeit one with a current under population of life.

 

[aaustin15]

i would recommend sand as well. i wouldn't mix sand and gravel because the newts can still ingest it. java moss and ferns are good for newts because they don't need a lot of light or rich substrate with gravel other plants should do well, but the lighting they require might bother the newts, depending on what species you have.

 

[evut]

If you're thinking about a Walstad set-up, read as much as you can about it. You will have to empty the tank and start from scratch - you can't add soil to a running tank. You could keep the bacterial population from your plants and decorations by keeping them in the tank water while you're re-doing the aquarium. The tank shouldn't need cycling with the soil.

 

[AngieD]

I spoke to an axolotl keeper recently (in a zoo) and he said the zoo uses gravel because on the occasions when an axolotl eats some of it, it passes through their system harmlessly (they conducted x-rays just to make sure none was getting lodged in there). They don't use sand because the granules have sharp edges, and in their experience it caused more damage to the lining of the gut than gravel.

I know plenty of people will say that gravel causes impaction, and some will have experience of this, but maybe there is a safe way of using gravel.

 

[Minniechild]

I would very likely be reporting that zoo to the RSPCA- gravel is NOT, under ANY circumstances WHATSOEVER suitable to be in a free floating state in a tank (Secured under mesh where none of it can get near the axies, that's okay and can in fact be beneficial to the tank's bioload). All it takes is one piece of gravel- it can be as small as 2mm, turning the wrong way in the gut and the axie is in trouble.

This is one area that the hobby with the multitude of experiences can overrule the zoo- there have been enough cases of impaction and enough DEATHS thanks to idiots not recognising the risks of it it to ever consider it as a possibly appropriate substrate. If they're worried about sharp sand, go to a superfine grain, or possibly use soil as a substrate.
*end rant*
Can't wait to see what you do in your tank!

 

[AngieD]

Well I would not report the zoo because there is no welfare issue with their axolotls - they have been breeding them for over 20 years, with no gravel-related deaths. That is sufficient to conclude that it works for them.
Securing gravel under mesh would trap extra dirt

 

[Minniechild]

Depending on how the gravel's being used, that can happen . However, if the inlet for the filter is underneath the gravel bags, then the amount of surface area for bacterial growth for the cycle is increased, and particulate waste can be caught, then if appropriate organisms such as blackworms are included in the system, utilised by them or by plants.

Also, I would disagree. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't (more it's a matter of when it will happen).
Worse, someone will see the zoo's axolotls and think "hey, gravel works!", set up their new tank at home and be feeding them sinking pellets or something else that can work into the rocks, and we end up with them on here in tears because their beloved new pet is dying.
The role of a zoo is to provide extremely high standards of care and husbandry for their animals so that visitors are able to see these animals in the best condition they can be, and to ensure that they conserve animals in a manner that is appropriate for the species they are dealing with. As a community, we have seen far too much evidence of the dangers of gravel, so to hear of a "professional" conservation organisation ignoring the insurmountable evidence is extremely disconcerting and needs to be dealt with both for the safety of the axolotls and for the ongoing standards of care provided to axies around the world.

And please don't take this as me going off at you- I'm angry at that zoo for not providing an appropriate habitat despite obviously knowing what the evidence says, and harbouring a much deeper anger and frustration with the pet shops and dealers who refuse to observe proper husbandry practices for their animals, especially axies who by far and away seem to take the brunt of malpractice.

 

[AngieD]

The zoo has an excellent record for keeping and breeding axolotls.
They ARE providing the highest level of care for their animals, by using a substrate which works extremely well for their animals - clearly I need to repeat the point that they carefully tested different substrates and analysed the effects they had, including x-rays. Besides this, sand can very easily 'clump' when it is wet, and there are plenty of axolotls that have died from sand impaction in the past, or have suffered internal lacerations from the sand passing through their gut.

There is no reason to be angry at the zoo for their carefully examined choice of substrate, the blame for maltreatment of pet axolotls mainly lies with the shops that give poor advice, and there are probably some misinformed breeders that give bad advice too. The role of a zoo is to educate people about animals and conservation, not to give people ideas on how to care for their pets which they should have researched thoroughly before acquiring them.