Sals on paper towel substrate

[nic]

Hi Everyone,
I have successfully been keeping three ambystoma (maculatum and platineum) for the last three years in a 20 gallon setup. They have grown from newly morphed juvies to near full adult and are fat and healthy. I have kept them on a substrate mixture of one inch gravel base plus coco-bedding on top, plus moss, and a fern (typical terrarium set up). I think most of the success has been being able to keep them below 68 degrees Fahrenheit too.
Now however, I have moved, and circumstances now are that I need an easier way to keep them. Has anyone had success keeping the ambystomas for long periods of time on the unbleached damp paper towels or a much easier to clean setup....substrate? I've read the docs and there are different opinions but I'm interested to hear if anyone has had long term success with the non-cumbersome, non-dirt substrate methods.
Has anyone tried the green pet carpet, plain moss, forest floor mix?
thanks in advance!
Nic

 

[jennifer]

Hi Nic, looks like you've already left New Mexico

EdK doesn't seem to be around these days, but I know he has kept Ambystomatids long-term on paper towel substrate. And I believe that quite a few fire salamander people use this method routinely.

In my experience, using paper towels is more time consuming and there is less room for error. If the towels aren't changed every couple of days, they foul quickly. On the other hand, soil type substrates can be left for weeks without attention.

What kind of forest floor mix are you considering? I have used packaged mixes, they work fine, but expensive.

 

[kristen]

We have kept A. maculatum, A. opacum, and A. talpoideum on paper towel substrate and they are fat and happy. On another note, I know that the research lab at SREL in South Carolina has kept hundreds of Ambystoma sp. on paper towel substrate.

 

[nic]

Hey thanks for the responses! Jennifer, how are you liking New Mexico?
I am trying a package mix ground from coconut husks that is called "soft bed". Under that I am putting a roll of the coconut fiber hermit crab climbing surface to act as a filter and under that some charcoal. I was hoping the layering would produce a nice short term filter that would last longer than usual. But now my latest problem seems to be ants coming in and into the cage and going for the crickets! Paper towels might be the only resort as it might get kind of difficult to handle ants nesting in the dirt. Bummer.

 

[kara]

I am not sure if I read this bit of info on caudata, or another site, but apparently rubbing a line of vaseline around the outside perameter of the tank helps with ants. It deters them from climbing any higher and getting in the enclosure. Try it out! Hope it helps!

 

[nic]

Thanks so much, yeah I just got off the phone with a guy at reptile depot who said the vasaline works well and there is also a type of chalk that is from china that works if rubbed around the parameter of your home (and the tank) but he didn't know what it was called. Anyone hear of anything like that? Also spraying vinegar around and white flour works but then you have to deal with the mess.

 

[kara]

vinegar is harmful if it comes in to contact with sals, I know you would be putting it on the outside of the tank, but the fumes may be bad for the animals.

 

[nicole]

Mineral oil....ants hate it. Boston Science Museum uses it as a moat to keep the ants in their setup.

 

[jennifer]

I use a mixture of ground coconut substrate + plain old top soil + bark chips. Soil has some of the same properties as a cycled tank; it breaks down waste products naturally. I have some soil setups that I haven't changed in over a year (the animals are tiny, so not much waste is produced). I also have some escaped earthworms and whiteworms living in most of the setups.

I think that if you cut off the ants from their nest (which is probably outdoors), they will die off. I doubt that they are already nesting in your setup.

I'm still enjoying the rocky beauty and sunshine of N.M. Good luck in LA.

 

[joseph]

The chalk could be diatomaceous earth. I've heard of it and seen the chalk(but am not sure if this is the exact ingredient). If it is diatomaceous earth it is the shells of long dead marine diatoms...it kills insects by cutting into their shells and dehydrating them. Not sure what would happen to amphibians exposed to the dust.

 

[colin]

When I was doing my field research in southcentral Brazil, the campus I was working at had quite a lot of research going on with ants and had some impressive room-sized ant farms. Their interest was in keeping them contained, but the basic principle is the same. They applied a liquid teflon solution around the rim of the bottles/aquariums/containers that the ants were in and it seemed to work very well. I also saw the same stuff used to contain cockroach colonies and other insects, so I'd say it must work. Whether you could readily find it or not is another problem....

 

[nic]

Hey thanks everyone for your replies. Was a big night last night. While I was at work yesterday, the ant colony decided it would be great to move into my dart frog's vivarium. YEAY! Long (and I mean long) story short, I had to dump the thing. The good news is they left my salamander enclosure alone for the most part and didn't touch my dart frog. Sad now though I have to give her up...healthy three year old adult. Other good news is I applied vasaline to the base of the Salamander tank (and furniture housing it) and no sign of them this morning after an apartment wide cleanup.
It was interesting to view the behavior of a moving ant colony. Seems there is a group that harbors and tries to protect the queens while other groups dig out the soil and prepare the nest. They were very excited to move into that vivarium though, moist soil, constant food source, lots of plants.....

 

[nic]

for anyone concerned, so far the vasaline has kept any straggling ants out of my sal cage. So far so good. I basically coated on about an inch wide line around the perimeter