Salamander Larvea ID

[chris]

We found them in a small pond with a very small slow moving stream coming into it, with a very small fast moving stream coming out which goes to a waterfall into a smaller pond and down a storm drain.It is a permenant pond in east Tennessee. They were found at edges of both ponds next to reeds,in the bottom leaf litter,mud,and dead vegetation and sticks. We found them while dipnetting. We also saw no adults,but there were large frogs.

They're about 3/4" to 1".They're light tan with a rusty sand effect and lighter tan on top.They're streamline with light tan gills(not feather).Tail has very very small flaps on top and bottom. Small eyes(not pertruding)with a dark line crossing just the head through eyes on sides. There are no spots.

I know it's very detailed(I tried).

Thanks for your help.

 

[greg]

The dark line through the eyes is a very good character! good observation. This and the habitat type lead me to think you have eastern red-spotted newts (Notophthalmus viridescens) larvae. Nose should be kinda pointed. They also should have no grooves on the side of the body the way some salamanders do (no costal grooves that is).

Does this match?

Greg

 

[chris]

That sounds exact now does anyone know larva care for them(I know the eft and adult care).

(<font size="-2">OR SHOULD I START A NEW THREAD?</font>)

 

[nate]

To me they could very well be Eurycea or Desmognathus larvae. Both commonly have the dark line that leads through the eye across the side of the head. Your description of non-feather gills, streamlined body, and small tail fins fits better than Notophthalmus.

The larvae of Notophthalmus will have a high tail fin which extends onto the back, while the larvae of Eurycea or Demognathus will have short tail fins which do not extend beyond the hind legs.

 

[chris]

The small fins only to hind legs is what they have. I hope they survive to adults,so we can finally know.

BTW:I have raised alot of eurycea larva so i know how.

Thanks!!

 

[greg]

do they have costal grooves? supposedly, salamandrids don't (please confirm this all you Triturus breeders out there) and I've used that as a key character in the field.

with a stream into and out of Eurycea and Desmog are both possible. Post a picture man.

 

[chris]

No coastal grooves that I can see(Of coarse at that size it's hard to be sure)

And they had all their legs already when found

I'll get a picture of pond and all+larva very soon.
Also if it helps the streams are full of water grasses in one and the faster one has tall grass leaning over it on both sides making a "cave".

 

[greg]

ah. so these are not streams with flat rocks and things like that. these are streams with grass... canals?

Any idea what kind of fish are in either stream or what kind of aquatic insects? Those often help characterize a habitat type.

greg

 

[chris]

The one stream that's full of water grass you can barely see move,the faster one has flat rocks and twigs and stuff in it without grass[the first one is 2 ft. wide 3 in. deep, the second is 1.5 ft. wide and 1 to 2 in. deep going to a water fall about 2 ft. high]

The first big pond is atleast 5 to 6 ft. deep and the smaller one is 4 in. deep[more of a puddle] going to a storm drain[which goes to another stream system without ponds where Two Lineds have been found about it is 25 yards away on the other side of a highway]

The salamander larva were in the ponds not streams,but the second stream might have the adults in it[haven't looked for them]

The pond/stream system is next to a hill with small ferns and a couple trees.

There are no fish in ponds or streams.There are some crawfish,frogs,these bugs that look like beetles/or/spiders in the mud, and small worms.

I'll try to get pics.

Thanks, I didn't think I'd get this much feedback!!

 

[nate]

I think if they've got fins only to the hips, they must be Eurycea. While it's true that a pond-like habitat normally suggests Notophthalmus or Ambystoma, Eurycea and Desmognathus are both documented to reproduce in spring-fed ponds or ponds that are in the course of a stream.