Raising juvenile Lissotriton

[froggy]

Hi all

I know that a lot of the larger Triturus can be raised aquatically as juveniles, but I was wondering if the same can be achieved for any of the Lissotriton, particularly L. vulgaris and L. helveticus. Anyone have nay experience of this?

Chris

 

[Mark]

I haven't tried forcing them to be aquatic. I'm sure people have but in my opinion it would be very un-natural and pose a drowning risk. Given the slightest chance they will leave the water and become almost as hydrophobic as cynops morphs. From observations in my garden, juveniles don't go near the water until at least they show some signs of maturity.

I've raised only vulgaris and helveticus. I can't speak for other species.

 

[Azhael]

I have very little experience with Lissotriton juveniles but when i tried to keep them aquatic, one almost drowned.
I´ve heard of people raising L.boscai aquatically....but the rest of the species i think everybody raises terrestrially.

 

[froggy]

OK. From what I have read, alpine newts are more readily made aquatic. The reason I ask is that I want to do a study on this as part of my PhD. Although a lot of people keep lots of species aquatic after morphing, no-one has looked empirically on its effects on stress and growth rates. As Amphibian Ark recommends that someone research into this, I thought that I would do it. I know that Cynops are probably the most commonly aquatically reared newts, but getting hold of enough eggs at one point is basically impossible, whereas what-used-to-be-Triturus are more readily available. I may try this with alpines, then.

Chris

 

[Azhael]

You will have much better results with I.alpestris in my opinion. Not only because they are easier to raise (and grow faster) but because as you say, they take more readily to water. The subspecies you choose will have an effect on this, though.

 

[Mark]

Alpines, especially apuanus can be easily raised 100% aquatically. I think the nominate species likes a terrestrial phase. If you want apuanus eggs in the spring give me a shout because my group usually boot out hundreds and hundreds.

 

[froggy]

Yes, I was thinking apuanus. Mark - if you could part with a 150 or so eggs (for suitable reimbursement) in the Spring, that would be great! Would that be around March time, or later?

Chris

 

[caleb]

In my experience, order of aquatic tendency in 'Lissotriton' is

italicus>boscai>helveticus>vulgaris>montandoni.

italicus metamorphs are easy to raise aquatically (and can be raised to maturity in one season). boscai aren't usually a problem, helveticus can occasionally be persuaded, it's a very rare exception in vulgaris*, and you've no chance with montandoni.

*I've no experience with vulgaris subspecies other than the nominate, I'd be interested to know of any difference.

I'd agree that alpines are easy to raise aquatically, and I too have heard that apuanus are more aquatic than alpestris. Incidentally, my 21-year old female (alpestris/apuanus mix) has never left the water for more than a couple of days.

It's been suggested here that terrestrial raising has the potential for higher growth rates (due to lower activity levels when on land) but that increased appetite in aquatic rearing makes it easier to get close to the maximum aquatic growth rate. Waights certainly managed to terrestrially raise alpestris and montandoni to maturity in one season (have you seen that paper?)

 

[froggy]

No, Caleb - could you forward me the paper?
Are apuanus equally happy to be on land, or do they prefer to stay aquatic?

Thanks

Chris

 

[Mark]

Yes, I was thinking apuanus. Mark - if you could part with a 150 or so eggs (for suitable reimbursement) in the Spring, that would be great! Would that be around March time, or later?

March or April is normal. Obviously I can't guarantee numbers because that is very much dependant on the newts. Based on previous years I could spare a good number.

 

[raptor86]

Hello!! I have some experience with L vulgaris ampelensis and i never keep juveniles under 4 cm aquatic because some of them drown....but juv. 4- 5 cm long can be kept aquatic with lots of plants 6-8 cm deep water..the aquatic ones seem to grow a little faster than the terestrial ones... and can reach sexual maturity in one season.

 

[richard kingham]

Hi !

To the best of my knowledge from past experience of the Lissotriton group,the
juveniles of L.vulgaris, L.helveticus and L.montandoni all preferred a terrestrial environment. Lissotriton italicus took to water very early. Lissotriton boscai I'm not so sure about. A few of these I did have and as juveniles it was a terrestrial setup.

 

[KennyDB]

That's exactly the same experience that I have. I keep all 5 and italicus, boscai, helveticus are all aquatic. I see a very different behavior in montandoni vs. rest of lisso's, montan's are very active on land and the moment you put food in their enclosure they're out in a second. Little machines they are.

In my experience, order of aquatic tendency in 'Lissotriton' is

italicus>boscai>helveticus>vulgaris>montandoni.

italicus metamorphs are easy to raise aquatically (and can be raised to maturity in one season). boscai aren't usually a problem, helveticus can occasionally be persuaded, it's a very rare exception in vulgaris*, and you've no chance with montandoni.

 

[froggy]

Thanks all for the input - I think that alpines are probably the best to look at this in. Does anyone know whether juveniles of the more aquatic species (italicus etc) ever return to the water early in nature?

Chris