Questions on Spanish ribbed newt

[Axolot420]

Today I purchased a baby Spanish ribbed newt and he has a hind leg missing, I was wondering if like salamanders and axolotls he'll regenerate his missing limb, and if there's any measures I should take to ensure he stays healthy, it's not an open wound its closed up, help is always appreciated.

Regards, zane

 

[Kaysie]

It should regenerate fine. Just keep it cool and clean and well-fed.

Just as a matter of semantics, all newts are technically salamanders. They're a sub-division of salamanders. Axolotls are also salamanders. They actually used to be considered a species of tiger salamander!

 

[Axolot420]

Alrighty! he's just getting acquainted with his new tank and tank mates! He just got done chowing down some bloodworms and seems content, thanks for the help!

 

[Azhael]

The tank mates are other P.waltl? If there is a significant size difference, you might want to keep them separate for a while. Keep that in mind.
It should regenerate the missing limb without any problems and fairly quick, as Kaysie said, just keep it stress-free, healthy and well-fed and in no time there will be a new limb. Juveniles and larvae are the ones that regenerate the best.

 

[Axolot420]

Actually he's housed In a community tank with a couple firebellies his size and smaller and a diamond back terrapin about the size of an iPod earbud, they're all housed in a 40 gallon breeder tank with various hides and live plants, this is my main tank and I love it, it's its own little ecosystem with some ghost shrimp and snail populations in there with some Cory cats and a small red crab, this tank is flourishing and I've had no issues with the different species living together considering they all eat about the same diet and enjoy the same temps and conditions, I'm very selective of what I put in there though, the water is clean and very well balanced and I wouldn't want anything messing that up. I've also put a tetrafauna reptoguard dissolvable vitamin for reptiles and amphibians in there to help balance out anything that may have been infectious or harmful in the water and its just good for all around health.

Regards, Zane

 

[Axolot420]

P.S. I'll post pics soon, he's getting along we'll with his mates.

 

[Kaysie]

Species mixing is a bad idea.

For one, your waltl will get about 10x the size of your firebellies. For two, unless you specifically got the firebellies from a breeder, they're almost certainly wild-caught and disease-ridden (they almost all are). Cory cats can and do cause impalement and death (usually for both the newt and the fish) when newts attempt to swallow them.

I could go on all day about why this is a bad idea. Be prepared for an onslaught of flaming.

 

[Axolot420]

1.) I'm aware of the risks involved
2.) I've known the Mannerisms of my fire bellies for quite some time, they're rarely seen always hiding and when they aren't they're on the tree or log, I personally know the breeder they came from, and I was reffering to the Cory's being breeders, they are quite large and way fast for the newts to even try to catch, all the newts in my tank are often hand fed bloodworms (they are EXTREMELY picky) except the p waltl he is new, and at the store he came from he was housed with several bigger watls and paddletails and fire bellied toads, which are the ones responsible for the missing limb, they were all fed bloodworms. The Cory's and newts are actually quite harmonious they often hide in the same spots together, and I'm ready to move the watl once he gets heftier, the watl is the only one I'd be concerned about because the other critters have been living together for quite some time with no complications, I have had many Petco employees and such warn me about housing them together but they've been happy for months. The watl seems very timid and has already Interacted with the turtle and other news, there's pics on my profile of them socializing. So thank you for the concerns, but after hearing so many about this they all get dismissed pretty quickly.

 

[Azhael]

The risks you are taking are no joke. You dismiss them at the peril of your animals.
Like Kaysie said, the P.waltl will get much bigger, pretty fast, and when it does there´s a very real possibility of it eating or severely injuring/killing the H.orientalis.
The temperatures required by the species you have mentioned are not all the same. The corys in all probability require temps about 25ºC, while the H.orientalis should ideally be kept under 20ºC. The crab is an opportunistic scavenger that will not hesitate to tackle the newts if they are weak or injured.
The terrapin is also an opportunists that posses a similar, but much more significant threat.

You may think these animals are thriving together, but that is certainly not the case. They have different requirements, and pose very real threats to each other. By keeping them together you are assuming serious risks that put them in jeopardy. It´s your job as a responsible keeper to avoid such unnecessary risks, not to force them onto the animals for your personal enjoyment.
I realise nothing Kaysie or i have said is likely to change your mind, but i´d strongly advice you to reconsider your choices, because when (not if) something goes wrong, it´ll be the poor animals who pay the price. If you eliminated the unnecessary risks and kept the newts in individual, species-specific tanks, you could enjoy them for many, many years indeed.

Just for the record, mixes of this nature have been attempted many times by different individuals, and they invariably end up badly...

 

[Axolot420]

I have taken this into consideration, I don't want you to feel I'm bull headed and will do whatever, the watl is only temporarily in there hell be moved to his own terrarium soon, there are several cooler sections of the tank, which is pretty much the whole left side, the right side is slightly warmer with some cooler spots in it, I only use a 40 watt daylight bulb for the heat source of the turtle he requires very minimal heating due to his size, the Cory's are the least of my worries I had bought them for cleaning, are there any safer cleaners for this tank? I made this to accommodate the turtle and newts, the water level, hiding spots and spots to get out of water are all arranged for them. So essentially take the watl out of this picture, I plan on having the terrarium ready by Wednesday at the latest.

 

[Axolot420]

And the terrapin has been raised on pellets, and that's all he will eat, the newts enjoy them too sometimes, the terrapins head is about half the size of a jelly bean and would be the last thing I'd see to even harm the newts, he is extremely slow and gentle.

 

[Azhael]

That still leaves the poor H.orientalis sharing space with two aggressive predators in an environment that is not adequate for them.
Plus even if you separate the P.waltl, you´ve already exposed it, unnecessarily, to what is probably a fairly long list of potential threats including patogens and parasites.
Please understand we don´t say these things just because we feel like it. As i said earlier, this forum has been witness of many cases of various mixes and the horrors that have resulted from them. If we insist and we are rather firm about it is because there´s ample reason to.

As a side note, the newts (neither the H.orientalis nor the P.waltl) do not really require elaborate land areas, and in fact, if they are leaving the water at all, that´s a sign of stress. In optimal conditions, these two species behave 100% aquatic, with only some individuals making the VERY occassional and short incursion on land, mostly at night. For the most part, though, this never or almost never happens.

PS: I have checked your pictures and unfortunately i have to say one of the firebellies, the smaller one, is looking rather in bad shape. It´s too thin and the spine is showing, plus the texture of the skin is a sure sign of trouble.
This is very common in these poor newts because they suffer very bad conditions during their capture, importation and at the shops. Since the conditions you are providing are far from optimal, it´s only making things worse for the already very vulnerable little fella.
I must also say that you should avoid handling the newts unless it´s absolutely unavoidable, in which case you should only do it with wet hands and for the shortest time possible. The natural oils of our skin, not to mention possible traces of soaps or creams can be dangerous to them, as well as the heat of our hands which is way beyond the tolerable spectrum for these animals.

PSII: I imagine this is not what you were expecting or hoping to hear when you came to the forums, but once again, please realise we say this because we care.

 

[TylototritonGuy]

Sorry but simply have to post this as I don't believe in this at all if I'm honest. Like it has been said before you may think they are all thriving and being pally with each other but thats not something very obvious to us humans. At the end of the day these animals don't show actual emotion, or make little friends with different species.

I'm not even going to flaming bother with a Rage, but advise you please separate them, its not natural, they aren't buddies and its not good husbandry and it certainly isnt smart! I have no idea why you thought putting them together would be a good idea but potentially if you haven't QT or ISO'ed them, you could be saying goodbye to all your Amphibians in with them lol I really wish there would be a stop with this pathetic craze of asking "Ooooo can I keep these with this" and so on, cos it all ends up the same which is in disaster.

Here is a thread perfect for times like these lol:

Mixing Species

 

[xxianxx]

Species mixing Be prepared for an onslaught of flaming.

I am not even going to mention the incredibly stupid species mixing disaster you have in the making, I hope you are a troll looking for fun as its hard to believe that this kind of foolishness is genuine.

 

[Axolot420]

Well this is disappointing, I hoped to have found somewhere with more openminded and conservative types, not people from varying countries bashing a 16 yr old kid who has only started to dip his toe into this hobby and made a first mistake of probably many, it saddens me to see these types of reactions. I thought leaving YouTube and other sites such as that I was leaving behind immature frivolous behavior and comments such as this, but yet again to no avail. I can only learn from mistakes and try to better myself as a keeper and my animals conditions, but I will no longer look to this site, not every animal is exactly the same, and yes I do fully understand what the species does as a whole etc. but I'm going to rely on personal experiences and other local owners and friends as too looking to this I found some help but now I'm realizing more of a hindrance, understand an average person does not devote all of their time, money, energy and resources into amphibian keeping, granted there re some who do, but I'm not one, I'm not a scientist, I'm a adolescence who enjoys nature and things that happen in nature and decided to try and bring it into my home. I appreciate the help I did receive but again, I'm saddened this still occurs on a site like this. So I guess I'll withdraw as a member, and seek professional help if it is absolutely needed. Call me ignorant if you will.

 

[Axolot420]

And again thank you to the concerned owners and the moderators who did help and offer constructive criticism, and not just remind on what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Lugubris]

If you do happen to visit this site again (I hope you do, it really is a great resource with people who care) I thought I would mention this:
First, don't feel bad about making a mistake, you did not know any better and it sounds like there is still time to fix it. It happens to the best of us (me included).
Second, I believe the reason users replied angrily (more on that later) is that the moderators are generally accepted as being professionals. Their advice should not be taken lightly even if it conflicts with personal experience or the advice of friends.
Third, personal experience is great, but it is far more advantageous to combine it with existing knowledge. Just because your animals have coexisted for a few months, that does not mean it will always be the case. A good example of this is my Jack Dempsey fish, which is extremely aggressive, but once allowed a feeder goldfish to live in his tank for weeks (which is the opposite of your case but still proves the point that animals are unpredictable).
Lastly, keep in mind that this site has a reputation system, if a reply to a post is inappropriate you can try to reduce the user's reputation.

Also, to those posting about trolling or other similar personal attacks, I hope the users response shows you how little that helps. I can understand why you were angry, I was angry when I first read the post. But if you truly care about the animals, you don't want to personally attack the owner. You don't know under what circumstances they are choosing to do what they do, and attacks like that only make people become disaffected.

On a closing note, this is the internet after all; just as others may not know the circumstances under which you are choosing your actions, you do not know the circumstances under which they are choosing their actions. I hope you come back to this web site Zane, and that we can all get along. If not for anything else, for the sake of the animals we love.

 

[xxianxx]

If you do happen to visit this site again (I hope you do, it really is a great resource with people who care) I thought I would mention this:
First, don't feel bad about making a mistake, you did not know any better and it sounds like there is still time to fix it. It happens to the best of us (me included).
Second, I believe the reason users replied angrily (more on that later) is that the moderators are generally accepted as being professionals. Their advice should not be taken lightly even if it conflicts with personal experience or the advice of friends.
Third, personal experience is great, but it is far more advantageous to combine it with existing knowledge. Just because your animals have coexisted for a few months, that does not mean it will always be the case. A good example of this is my Jack Dempsey fish, which is extremely aggressive, but once allowed a feeder goldfish to live in his tank for weeks (which is the opposite of your case but still proves the point that animals are unpredictable).
Lastly, keep in mind that this site has a reputation system, if a reply to a post is inappropriate you can try to reduce the user's reputation.

Also, to those posting about trolling or other similar personal attacks, I hope the users response shows you how little that helps. I can understand why you were angry, I was angry when I first read the post. But if you truly care about the animals, you don't want to personally attack the owner. You don't know under what circumstances they are choosing to do what they do, and attacks like that only make people become disaffected.

On a closing note, this is the internet after all; just as others may not know the circumstances under which you are choosing your actions, you do not know the circumstances under which they are choosing their actions. I hope you come back to this web site Zane, and that we can all get along. If not for anything else, for the sake of the animals we love.

Wind your neck in, I have spoken to the young man in private chat after his last post, he now understands the implications of his species mixing and has decided to separate his pets as he does generally care about them. I have also advised him to post about his skinny cynops and what to add to the new thread to help people to help him, dont be so quick to judge other people your self in future....

 

[TylototritonGuy]

I'm not sure where these so called personal attacks have come from, people pretty much raged or got annoyed with you for basically saying you dont care what others think, its working and its staying that way, which I count as having no regard to animal welfare and being to supply suitable needs. You are on a forum and there is a lot of people like yourself that have do exactly what your doing now which is having a sulk cos people havent praised you or said anything good.

At the end of the day the people that have tried to warn you love animals, end of story. And if it means they have to be cruel to a keeper to make them listen to good advice then its not a bad thing, fact is to many new keepers think they can mix and get exactly like you have done and quite frankly I can imagine it gets quite tiring repeatedly asking keepers to do research. So instead of taking it personally, man up a little as its still constructive criticism! You said your 16, age shouldn't come into it as no matter what age you are we all make mistakes, just if you bother to listen to people you might learn something which you refuse to do so. Professional help, are you being serious? The people trying to get you to listen, are professionals who know what they are talking back so you are indeed ignorant and a little arrogant from what i tell. If professional you mean a shop, then I wouldn't bother asking as Shops are in it for money, and pretty much all of them suggest mixing and the such too line their pockets... If you had just accepted the information instead of being so arrogant you could of avoided this, but in truth i am tired of new keepers acting like they know it all and not listening to people when help is provided.

Lugubris, what your saying about us is a load of rubbish to be frank. We happen to care about his animals hence why we bothered to take the time to type. So dont judge people yourself...

Edit: glad he listened Ian, I wrote this while you were typing I think lol

 

[Azhael]

Ok, TyloGuy, Ian, that was not at all helpful. I understand your frustration and your anger, i do, but this was clearly a situation in which such aggression would produce no results other than scare Zane away. In the future, choose your audience...i´m the kind of person who thinks there is a time and a place for posts like yours, but this was definitely not it.

Zane, i hope you get to read this. The reason why people get so aggressive and condemn actions like yours so behemently is because this really is not new at all. This site is the oldest forum devoted to caudates in the internet, it contains more people and more accumulated experience than any other site (and i´m not saying this to brag, it just happens to be true). Unfortunately there is tones of really bad advice out there, but we pride ourselves in offering the best of our knowledge to the best of our hability. We wouldn´t critisize your choices if we didn´t have an excellent reason to do so. I know i have repeated this already, but i want it to be very clear.

You have mixed animals from at least 3 separate continents, animals which are not social at all, but are all in fact solitary, opportunistic predators. Their requirements are not all the same. It is not possible to keep them all together without sacrificing the well-being of some of them. Given their origin they are in all probability carriers of patogens and maybe parasites. A quarantine period of no less than a month is an absolute must (remember this in the future).
You have made mistakes, there´s no way around it, but then again we al have at some point or another. You have the opportunity to learn and improve your choices, don´t throw that away because someone´s comments on the internet have hurt you.
Like Lugubris has said, you can benefit from the accumulated experience and knowledge that this site has to offer and you can still do the right thing for your animals. Make the right choices and like i said earlier, you could enjoy your animals for a very long time and see them trully thriving.
As a final note, non of us are professionals. Wether we are scientists (or trying to be) or not is not relevant. Here we are all hobbyists. This means we keep our animals for our own pleassure but that in no way eliminates the fact that we have a moral and ethical responsability towards our animals. Their well-being and their health are on our hands, it´s up to us to guarantee their welfare. You can´t ignore that responsability, Zane, because being a hobbyist is no excuse.
I´m sure you want to do the right thing, so just relax, read as much as you can (you can start with the CC articles to which you can find links in my signature) and start doing some changes. I hope you will, and good luck.