Questions about entire tank setup!

[elicea]

Hello all! I got my first axie (Lucy) about 2 months ago, and immediately knew I need more! I bought a second one (wild type) a couple weeks ago. My Lucy is much more chill while my wild type is very active.

I have a 40 gallon tank, tall. It's currently about 35 gallons filled. I plan to take out around 1/3 of the water as I would like to get some plants going and have been reading for weeks that plants are best not fully submerged. It is also very hard to feed them in this tank since the lucy stays at the bottom. I have two feeding bowls in there, both of which I use a baster to fill with blood worms. You can imaging my arms both get very wet haha. My lucy will not eat any works I have tried (red wigglers, earth worms) even after soaking. But I plan to try black worms.

My tank is currently a layer of sand, a few scattered rocks and a couple plastic plants. It is incredibly bare looking considering how tall it is. It is in my bedroom where it receives a little light from my window (i keep my blinds closed).

My questions are:

1- Is necessary to have both a water filter and an air filter? I currently have neither being used but was given a canister filter that I plan to get set up.

2- If you aren't supposed to use lights for the sake of the axies wel being (heat, stress, eye problems, etc) how do you keep live plants healthy? I know there are low-light plants... so would the tiny amount of light that my bedroom gets with my blinds closed be enough?

3- The pet store I went to yesterday had an axie in a tank that had maybe 6 inches high of water, then had rocks and plants above that for maybe around a foot. The axie was in the tiny pool of water and they had frogs in there hanging out on the rocks. Is something like thst okay? It seems like it's not nearly enough water (my active wild type would hate it) but also wouldn't the frogs hurt the axie?

4- This is the tank I have, as well as the dimensions. The first is the tank (before I bought it and cleaned it for axies), the second are dimensions, the third is the style of tank setup I want with only rocks and plants. Is my current tank size okay for maybe one or two more axies even though it is tall instead of long? Is the tank in the 3rd pic an acceptable habitat for axies (but with a higher level of water)?

 

[qannp]

Hi, I love the shape of your tank! It looks great. :happy:

1) I recommend a sponge filter with an airpump. These filters cause the less water movements. Unless you stuff your tank with live plants and monitor the water parameters carefully, you'll need a filter.

2) I have Vallisneria gigantea, Anubias and Elodea in my tank. All of them can deal with the low temperatures and don't need much light. Vallisneria has long leafs that cover the surface, so the bottom of my tank is pretty dark. Daylight may not be enough for your plants to grow - start with easy and quite cheap plants like Elodea and see what happens.

3) 6 inches of water is the minimum for a 6 inch axie. No, it's not ok to have frogs and axies in the same tank. They have different needs, African Dwarf Frogs need temperatures from 24°C up, for example. Also, frogs may carry diseases that will hurt the axies. A friend of mine adopted axies that shared a tank with said African Dwarf Frogs. It turned out that they got chlamydia from the frogs, and he had to keep them in lifetime quarantine.

4) Since I'm really bad at math, please calculate yourself: Let's say, your axies will be about 12 inches when they're fully grown. So they will need at least 0,9m2 ground area, and 25% more for every additional axie.

 

[allied123]

Sorry to start off on a sour note but I very much disagree about the size/shape of the tank. When you do the math the floor space of this aquarium is even smaller than a 20 gallon long aquarium...I personally have 2 axies in a 20 long and even with that I think it's really pushing it (I'm looking into getting a 40 breeder, more floor space). Since axies spend most of their time on the floor they need more floor space than anything else. it's usually quoted as 20 gallons per axie and then another 10 per axie but it's more accurately 2 square feet for one axie and then an additional foot per axie, sorry to be a party pooper but I think you'd be best off with one axie max. Unless the axies are weak/babies the height isn't too important (i.e. I think filling the aquarium all the way up is fine, you just need a lid as they can jump pretty high and they're more active at night when you're sleeping, wouldn't want to wake up to a dried up axie on the floor)

The canister filter sounds perfect though, most people think it's the best kind. the air filter is really optional/not needed, some people say it makes their gills look better,some say worse (me or someone else can go more in depth with that if you want or you can search the forum for threads on air filters).

I can't tell you much about plants, I just started with plants in a different non-axie aquarium but hopefully someone can tell you something besides moss balls that need practically no light because I'd love to have some plants too!

The frogs wouldn't "hurt" the axolotls but they are not compatible whatsoever.

I don't see what would be wrong with the third one exactly? I mean I'm sorry I might be misundderstanding the question, could you explain your concern about that set up better?

 

[qannp]

allied123, you do you realize that 3 square feet for two axies is equal to 0.9 square meters as I recommended, don't you?
By the way, my suggestion is not made up out of thin air; these are the minimum requirements according to austrian Animal Welfare Act. You may want to provide your axies even more space.

It's irrelevant how the tank is shaped, as long as it provides enough floor space.

Though I'm sorry to end with a sour note: allied123, you know that your tank is way to small for your pets. Why didn't you upgrade yet?

 

[keiko]

allied123, you do you realize that 3 square feet for two axies is equal to 0.9 square meters as I recommended, don't you?

3 square feet equals 0,28 square meters. 0,9 square meters would be about 10 square feet. And in a tank that has a bottom area of 0,9 sq meters/10 sq feet you could have quite many axies. But the 3 sq feet tank would be fine for one axie, maybe 2 at least while they're small.

Personally I wouldn't use filters powered by an air pump. They make a lot of noise and they are not very effective. Best would be a filter with ceramic media inside, because they provide the most surface area for the good bacteria to grow on. If you want an air pump in your tank then you can add a bubble bar for that, but those are pretty much just for aesthetic reasons. If you do decide to use filters powered by an air pump then I'd suggest getting at least two big ones for your tank.

 

[qannp]

3 square feet equals 0,28 square meters. 0,9 square meters would be about 10 square feet. And in a tank that has a bottom area of 0,9 sq meters/10 sq feet you could have quite many axies. But the 3 sq feet tank would be ok for one axie.

Oh well, I'm really bad with converting feet to meters. Thanks for correcting! And my apologize to allied123 for this one.

Personally I wouldn't use filters powered by an air pump. They make a lot of noise and they are not very effective. Best would be a filter with ceramic media inside, because they provide the most surface area for the good bacteria to grow on. If you want an air pump in your tank then you can add a bubble bar for that, but those are pretty much just for aesthetic reasons. If you do decide to use filters powered by an air pump then I'd suggest getting at least two big ones for your tank.

My airpumps are so silent, I often have to check if they're still running.

Of course a spongefilter run by an airpump won't get the waste out of the water; that's not how it's supposed to work. It's a biological filter, and it's not ineffective. It's true, you have to clean the waste out all by yourself, but at the same time, it keeps good water quality with little water movement.

I doubt that ceramic material provides more surface for the good bacteria than a HMF ("Hamburger Mattenfilter"). Basically, it's just a huge sponge, it's cheap and effective filtering method for axolotl tanks.

PS: I just realized I used the feet/meter converter instead of squarefeet/squaremeter. Oh my.

 

[keiko]

Ceramic media is extremely porous and therefore has amazing surface area. It is widely considered the best substrate for biological filtration because of the high surface area to volume ratio.
With all the mess axies make I prefer a filter that will remove any particles from the water as well as provide the maximum biological filtration. So I use filters that have ceramic media as well as coarse and fine sponge. For example my latest purchase, Eheim biopower filter, has a coarse sponge at the bottom that traps any big particles from the water, then there are a few baskets of ceramic media for biological filtration, and last a finer sponge to trap any remaining particles from the water. Still it doesn't make much current in the tank.

 

[keiko]

Forgot to ask in my previous post...
Doris, what air pumps are you using? I've been trying to find a quiet one, but haven't found anything quiet enough not to start annoying me after a while. :lol:

 

[qannp]

Both filtertypes have their benefits. I use a tank filter with lots of ceramic material in my pleco tank. In this tank, I need a filter that reduces the physical waste and causes water movement for my corydoras and the panaque. So I chose a huge tank filter.

My axie tank is easier to clean, also their droppings are easy to remove separately. They hate water movement, so in my opinion any mechanical filter is not suitable unless you reduce the performance to the point it becomes useless.

 

[qannp]

Arrrgh, just hit the submit button when the second notification came…

First, I had a Schego (M2K3, I think), and it was noiseless until I dropped it. I ordered replacement from amazon, but the one I got was broken, too. It was incedibly loud and I sent it back after two sleepless nights.

Now I use two Eheim pumps. They're running for nearly a year now and didn't get louder. Since the plecos and the axies are in my living/sleepingroom, quiet pumps and filters are essential, and I'm very happy with the Eheims.

 

[keiko]

They hate water movement, so in my opinion any mechanical filter is not suitable unless you reduce the performance to the point it becomes useless.

I have to disagree with this. I use a canister filter in one tank and an internal filter in another and neither of them produce a current that is too strong for axies. Ofcourse I add spray bars to both of them and point the output in a way that it doesn't create a huge current in the tank, but those are just minor adjustments I had to do when first setting the tanks up. I do not need to "reduce the performance to the point it becomes useless". Infact even my canister filter is almost at it's strongest setting, yet you can't even see the plants at the bottom, or axies gills for that matter, moving because of the water movement. In one part of the tank closer to the surface the current is a bit stronger, but it doesn't matter since the axies rarely hang out near the surface, except for one that sometimes likes to play in the current.

 

[qannp]

Well, than just let's agree that we don't agree.

I don't want to change your mind, I just wanted to point out that biological filters like mine are an option. :happy:

 

[elicea]

Thank you so much for your help guys! This is all very informative. I went to another pet store that sells Axies and found many live plants in the tanks with them so I bought a few right from those. I got a miss ball, which my Lucy seems to really love. I also got a banana plant, something full that sort of looks like fern but isn't, and something that just floats at the top in a cute shady mess. I wrote the names down but don't feel like digging through my purse at 3am!

Regarding water movement and it bothering my Axies... I know I'm a total noob, but it doesn't really make sense to me to move forward with my tank planning around a generalization with That. Same with ground space. What I mean is, my wild doesn't spend much time on the floor of the tank. He is a silly guy and when he isn't swimming or eating, He's just floating closer to the top. And with water movement, my Lucy hangs out closer to the current when I use the filter that hangs on the edge. He swims up to it right in the path of the current and let's it push him away. Then he just swims right back. Like its a game or something.

I don't plan to keep these guys in this tank forever as I do prefer the long ones, this just happened to fall in my lap. I've been seeking a 40 long for a few days. I think I want to hold off on anymore little guys until I get a solid understanding of these two but it seems like they each have their own radically different personalities!

I started building my "rock" tower for the tank this weekend, tall enough for about a third to be out of water with a waterfall and plants. I've modeled various hiding places and stuff. I feel good about the setu and will share once it's done and cycling.

Allied123, that third picture was more or less me asking if it as suitable for Axies. I have talked to a few people who assured me it would be great.

Thoughts on a sump tank? I hadn't heard of them before today but the guy said its like a million times better than any filter. Is this true...?

Thanks again! You guys have been the best. I already making a list withy he thoughts do far!