Presence of T.alpestis in England?

[simon]

Hey guys!

I read recently that T.alpestris and T.carnifex have been found living wild in england. Can anyone confirm this and where these newts are. Are they thriving or just hanging on?

Cheers
Si

 

[caleb]

I've not actually seen either of these wild in the UK, but I do have second-hand knowledge of some of the sites.

There's one well-known site in Surrey where carnifex have bred for many years. There are also cristatus here, and some research done in the late 90s found that carnifex and cristatus were hybridising there. This site also has alpestris.

There are loads of other sites where alpestris have survived and bred successfully. I've heard of colonies in Scotland, Tyne & Wear, Shropshire, Berkshire and Kent. I was told a couple of years ago that the Kent colonies were still going strong.

 

[william]

i know that the Shropshire colony is still around, but it has only spread 70m since it was introduced in the 70s. i answered her BTW:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/49212.html?1133530630

 

[simon]

I don't suppose you know whereabouts in Kent the colony is do you? I might pay it a visit as i'v never seen a wild alpestris before

 

[justin]

Caleb, do you have a copy of that research of the hybridizaton? I would be very interested in reading it.
Justin

 

[pollywog]

There is a population of carnifex in north Worcestershire / south Birmingham area.

 

[william]

Simon, i don't know the locality, sorry. what i do know is that only look at the species without picking it up, as soon as you put it down again, your breaking the law.

 

[francesco]

If alpestris is not a native species in Britain why is it against the law to collect them from the wild?

 

[francesco]

If alpestris is not a native species in Britain why is it against the law to collect them from the wild?

 

[simon]

I don't think the law is talking about the collection but more of the fact that once you have put it back, you are essentially putting an alien species into the area which may compete with cristatus. I'm not sure though.

 

[william]

yeah it's reintroducing the species, it's okay to take them out, just not to put them back in again. however this species is not known to compete with any native species. At least in the Shropshire population anyway

 

[caleb]

Justin- it's available here:
http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss024/pdfs/2000/Brede%20BJLS%202000.pdf

 

[adam]

I disagree with the idea of alpestris being non competitive species, I know of 3 populations which have been established deliberately. For some years, the alpestris so inhabited the ponds with L. hel & L. vul for some years but eventually the other species became very scarce or even extinct in these ponds. A sure sign that alpestris are very dangerous competitors. I am also sure that many people could confirm this situation in captivity.
Adam

 

[william]

well in the Shropshire colony, there have been reports of ponds with all three native species and the alpestris, so there doesn't seem to be any problem. i don't know anything about the other British colonies, however what you say goes against everything i've been told.