Illness/Sickness: Please help my babies

[swimupstream]

I am having the worst ever luck trying to raise axies... I can't believe it!! Second time around (both accidental spawnings - and yes, I have learned my lesson now ) and still I can't seem to get the hang of it.

3 days ago I had 59 babies, and up until yesterday morning, they seemed fine - eating, pooing, growing (slowly), but when I checked them early yesterday morning, heaps were dead and covered in fungus, and today again - I'm down to 22.

As you can see from the photos, their tummies don't look like they've been eating, and their gills are curled right forward. I've had an airstone in their containers since about day 3 - they seemed to like it - at least quite a few would cluster underneath it. It only moved the surface of the water slightly, no waves or anything like that. I took out the airstone this morning when I noticed their gills, but they're no better yet, and one more has died since 9am.

As far as water goes, I've been doing one complete change and one partial each day, and feeding once a day, sometimes twice. I leave the brine shrimp in for at least 2 hours, sometimes longer, because I can see they're still alive and swimming. I had been following forum advice to keep them in a week tea solution since about day 2, and that also seemed fine. I stopped the tea this morning, and they're just in plain rain water (which is what I normally use, and what all my axies live in).

The only stress-inducing thing I can think of is using the turkey-baster to switch them from container to container during the water change. But even that didn't seem to bother them, judging by how well things were going until yesterday.

Can anyone think of anything I could do to keep these last few alive? I don't begrudge a minute of all the time I've put in so far, but the emotional toll is just doing me in... no matter what happens I swear I will NEVER, EVER try to raise babies again.

Any and all advice appreciated...

 

[iSuzie]

When you do water changes daily do you clean the air stone? I think hat may be what caused the fungus, I could be completely wrong, but seems how you do 100% changes daily it would be the only thing remaining in the tubs that doesn't get cleaned {assuming you don't clean it}
Also they should be feed twice daily not once daily. Other than that you have been doing everything right, and sometimes things just happen.
As for the rest of them I would separate them in to tubs of about 5 or less if possible.
Do twice daily changes and keep them somewhere dark {like a cupboard} and cold as possible. What is there temp? and what was it this morning when you found them?

How do you move your baby's from one container to another? If you use a net or large spoon etc this may have brought in the fungus if not cleaned properly before and after each water change.
Um I cant really think of any other way that this could of happened other than contaminated net/spoon/air stone or even the air tubing.

Also how long do you keep your baby brine shrimp for in-between feeds?
As the nutrience level is not the same after 24 hours, and new baby brine shrimp should be hatched daily {not sure if your aware of this already}

Other than keeping them in small amounts in tubs in a dark col place there is practically nothing you can do for larvae

 

[iSuzie]

Also just to add a small amount of hope, their tails are not curled at the end only their gills are showing signs of stress. This may mean they will be ok... Hopefully..

 

[digger]

Do you rinse your brine shrimp properly in fresh water?
Looks like an awful lot of shell in their water, could just be my eyes but there looks like an awful lot of residue from the eggs, this is not good for them either.
Also i would say it is better to try and raise a few rather than a lot.
Last thing ,sometimes it doesnt matter what YOU do it can be down to genetics.

 

[swimupstream]

Thanks for the feedback - I've put them all in smaller tubs of 5 or so each in a cupboard, and I'll make sure I wash everything better - warm rinse may not have been thorough enough. I'm using a clean spoon to move them now instead of the turkey baster - it could have been harbouring nasties, I guess.

The brine shrimp shells are a problem - it seems I'm getting them mixed in when I go through that top layer of shells to get to the BBS at the bottom. I'll try scooping off the shells first and see if that helps.

Thanks again - I'll let you know how we go...

 

[HappySkittles]

Do you actually rinse the brine shrimp off tho before you feed them to the babies?

 

[yellowpebble]

i had the same thing happen to my babies, twice! from 300 i'm down to 23 of the origonals because of this. There was no stopping it it just ripped through them i gently salt bathed and fridged some but nothing. even if there was a prick of fungus on them, baby was garuenteed dead the next day. Gills and tail all curled up and covered in fungus, its horribel i'm sorry you are going through it too.

I took out my airstone and i never had the problem again, like suzie said i think it is the stone. I never thought to rinse mine, but i washed everything else every day. All the survivers have never had fungus since, and are growing really well without an air source.

i always have loads of brine shrimp shells in mine, i dont think thats the problem. They just poop them out again.

 

[iSuzie]

Do you actually rinse the brine shrimp off tho before you feed them to the babies?

Because the main problem is fungus.. id assume that even if he didn't rinse the salt off.. the salt would have somewhat prevented the fungus?... Seems how salt kills fungus..
Also a small amount of salt can help sick baby's when in stress and not kill them, and by small amount I mean 1teaspoon per litre, and that's the same amount that's used for the brine shrimp. So.. My thought process would be this, seems how only a small amount of salt from the 1teaspoon mixture with the brine shrimp would even get into the container with the brine shrimp it wouldn't do much to them, possibly make them not want to eat the brine shrimp but defiantly not give them fungus. I'm not recommending you don't rinse brine shrimp at all because clearly a fresh water larvae should not have salt contaminates BUT I'm pretty sure it wouldn't of coursed the problem in THIS situation.. Also I think he is aware of rinsing the brine shrimp

As for the air stone, this is what I think caused the problem as I had an air stone in with one of my bigger 3 baby's at the time they had just grown their back leg's. and all of a sudden the air stone was covered in fungus! I removed it immediately and the baby was fine after a water change and never got any fungus on him/her.. But I'm assuming I was just incredibly lucky in this situation, also this is why my first thought was the air stone! At first I didn't really want to post up my experience with it, because its a little embarrassing, because I never washed the air stone and I still feel guilty! But now I do realise that no one could possibly think of everything! And accidents always happen to the most careful of people!

 

[HappySkittles]

A little bit of salt to us may seem like a lot to the axolotl especially if its in a small amount of water (which is what it looks like) Too much salt may cause stress which may then lead to fungus from something else that normally wouldn't affect them.

I've read of people killing fry and other baby or small animals because they didn't rinse the brine out or because they ingested large amounts of the cysts. Just something to keep on top of even if it isn't the cause because it is important to remember.

 

[yellowpebble]

i forgot to say! I keep mine in a weak tea solution now, it doesn't harm them like salt and its anti fungal. Haven't had a problem since. Its good for their skin too, epecially if they have been nipping each other.

 

[den]

Hi swinupstream,
Sorry to hear about the loss... 12 babies that you posted to me are doing well, they are about 5-6cm now. I think proper rinsing on the brine shrimp is essential, i rinse the brine shrimp a few times in a coffee filter before feeding them. Maybe that would help....

 

[iSuzie]

I never said not to rinse them. I said it wouldn't of caused this problem. I myself Rinse my brine shrimp with a full large cup of water {about 10 turkey basters full}
My point wasn't not to rinse them it was that it wouldn't of coursed the fungus because salt kills fungus so there for fungus couldn't live in water with salt.

Also a weak salt solution can calm larvae in the same way a weak tea solution would.
{this isn't often recommend as it is risky and tea solutions are much better}

It is defiantly fatal to them in large amount or for long amounts of time, the only reason I mentioned it was to rule out salt as the killer in this situation because of the presence of fungus.

I worded what I said before very carefully because I didn't want anyone to think I was saying NOT to rinse brine shrimp.
And I completely agree it is very important to remember.

@den
If your baby's are 5-6cm they are big enough for blood worms or cut up piece of earthworm My 5 6 and 7cm baby's all love pieces of small earthworms cut up they enjoy it a lot and its incredibly cute! You might want to think about putting them on blood worms then earthworms soon as earthworms as the best thing for them especially when they are growing up!
One question.. Are these baby's from the same lot?.. The one's in the photo look tiny if yours are 5-6cm??... Or are your from the first lot he had?

 

[HappySkittles]

I know what you meant Suzi but I was still curious because it is important and I wanted to explain my thoughts on how even tho salt baths kill fungus, the stress of it can weaken an animal so that it gets sick.

I had a knife fish before that had ick. You can't use typical ick meds on them or you kill them. I tried salt baths to kill the ick. These are very sensitive fish and even tho I did everything exactly as I read, the baths still stressed the fish out and it got sicker and died. If baby axies are as sensitive as this fish was, then fungus and anything else could develop on a weakened animal.

Just my little story to explain how my mind thinks.

 

[den]

Hi Suzi...
correction to the size of my baby axies.. they are actually 2.5-3cm, all of them have limb bud.... I have fed them mosquito larvae and they love them...... As of today, they are 3 weeks old... They are the second batch from swimupstream, the same batch she is rearing now...

 

[iSuzie]

Thats horrible to hear HappySkittles sorry for your loss
I understand what your saying completely, a few different things could of weakened them before the fungus got them, they do look very weak especially for 3 week old larvae.
Salt, heat fluctuation, ph fluctuation, contaminates, movement from water changes all could cause stress on them and a lot more things, there is just so many things that can happen to these little guys.

@den
Oh in that case then they could possibly be on blood worms if you were interested in adding to their diet
If not its not needed yet lol But when my baby's got to 2.5cm I had them on blood worms until they got to 5cm and put them n earthworms.. Its the cutest thing! They bite at them and jump around like adults with a worm.. Just so adorable!

 

[ZombieAxolotl]

Are you using the same tank and airstone from the first batch that had this problem?

I hope they don't all die on you. But if you try again for babies I would definetly make sure to throughly clean the tank and ditch the airstone.

I also feed twice a day, it's really just a routine for me, that way i'm checking on them at least twice a day........... really lets be honest we all hover over the babies multiple times a day LOL........ but it lets you be a little more aware of if food is being eaten or if you need to start feeding more, or possibly larger prey.

rinsing food before hand is always a plus, be it blackworm, bloodworm, tubifex, grindel worm, brine shrimp... just to get off anything they had in their culture water/substrate.

 

[iSuzie]

Rinsing food AND the equipment that is used to serve food is essential!
Don't forget to clean out your turkey baster too! And any cups/spoons/nets..
Air stones/tubs/scrubbing brushes {I have a special brush just for axie tubs}
And anything that you use for them..
All the small things can easily be overlooked but are essential to clean properly in hot-boiling water if possible..
Also this should be done daily along with the 100% water changes.

All the little things make a difference.. We have to be a bit OCD when it comes to these baby's! lol

 

[Kaysie]

I never use freshly dechlorinated water with my larvae. I always use water straight from the adult tank. It's more stable, and there's less risk of thermal shock.

 

[ZombieAxolotl]

I use aged water for my larvae and egg water changes. I keep several buckets with water i've treated in the same room as them for several days (hence several buckets, I had a stock tank, but it's in the storage closet right now). That way the water is the same temperature as the current water they are in.

 

[larn]

I am no expert when it comes to this, however after researching the quality of the water in my town in the UK i feel it's best to use bottle spring water rather than the conditioning the tap water. I don't even drink the water myself as there are toxic chemicals which are added to the water such as fluoride which your water treatments won't neutralize. it could be harmless to axolotls but i won't risk it.

If you're not sure about fluoride being in your tap water have a look at your local water plant website to check. also research about the long term effects of fluoride