Please help me set someone straight on species mixing

[clarence]

Morning everybody! (well, here at least)

So, I'm having a tense conversation with someone about species mixing. He's been doing it for years and has never seen ill effects (the key word hear is seen). He wants to see research. Nothing I've pulled up off the net has swayed him. yes, he is a stubborn dog.

So, here is my request:

if any of you have citations from any zoology, zookeeping or international peer-review journals regarding the stressors, toxins and competition issues that come up with mixing species, please let me know.

I realize I'm probably arguing at a wall, but what I'm seeing, and what he isn't seeing, are very unhappy animals.

 

[edward]

Hi Clarence,

Almost all of the data I have seen on species mixing and stressors being a problem is anecdotal (there is extrapolatable evidence based on territoriality in some species). It is typically recommended against because most of the people that want to mix species are people new to the hobby and these people often do not have sufficient experience to successfully mix the animals.

The potential threat from toxins is well documented but the point is that it is a threat if the animal is consumed or if in some Bufonids death often causes the parotoid glands to release the toxins into the enviroment.

Many Zoos do practice mixed species enclosures and have only recently started documenting which "social" groups work. For example, at work for the last 10 years I have had a mixed species enclosure of Phelsuma standingi, Zonosaurus ornata, and Furcifer pardalis (second pair of pardalis as the first one died of old age three years ago). I have also had a multispecies enclosure of Cynops cyanurus, Bombina orientalis, for over ten years (with the addition of panchax for the last three years). But these are animals that have been screened for pathogens.
There are records of reptiles being a carrier for mycobacterial infection (see Outbreak of Mycobacterium marinum Infection Among Captive Snakes and Bullfrogs
… , R Wallace, M Michaels, H Foskett, EA Maslow, JA … - Zoo Biology, 2002 ) for a good source of references.
As chytrid has been documented from more than one importer/exporter mixing species places a risk of cross contaminination. It is also believed to have originated in Xenopus and then spread across the globe with Xenopus see
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no12/03-0804.htm

The weak point to his argument is that if he is not getting necropsies done on the animals, then some of the items that would help diagnose/cross infection and/or stress are going to go undetected.

Sorry to not have been more helpful

Ed

 

[jennifer]

The only thing I would add is that we have compiled a fairly extensive collection of anecdotal evidence, in case you haven't seen it:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

 

[eve]

i have had a tank w/ firebelly toads and newts for over 13 years. its a big tank (20 gallons) and they have never harrassed each other. they even both laid eggs which i successfully raised to adulthood. certainly the toads are aggressive critters, but they don't want to hang out unde the water, which is where the newts prefer. there are also many hidey holes.

 

[jeff]

just to give you an example, my p.waltl occasionally bite each other during feed form time to time. even keeping same species together offers chance that accidents will happen.