Platies with axolotls

[Reptileguy2727]

I just got some axolotls. Right now they are in a 20H but I will be putting them in either a 55 or a 40L. I have read that you should not keep any fish with axolotls because they will either end up as food or nip at their gills. But I figured platies usually stick to the top and I would like something else in the tank. Has anyone had any issues with platies with axolotls?

 

[carpy]

Hi

firstly, you have not stated how many axies you have got. i ask, because a 40l aquarium is quite small (what dimensions) and would be probably barely large enough for a pair of adult axies.

the main point with keeping these together is the temperature problem. platies prefer temperatures of 22C or above, whereas axies prefer/need temperatures below that. so you would need to compromise the needs of both, in order to keep them in the same tank.

on the nipping point, yes, they do nip their gills, in fact platies are one of the worst fish, as they are quite active, and are very nippy. depending on the size of your axolotls, they will also eventually end up as a meal, so in short, yes there are issues, and no it is not recommendable.

although, some people keep certain species of shrimp with axies, and there are seemingly no problems there, although i have never kept them together.

 

[Reptileguy2727]

40long (48x13x16) not 40liters. There will be three axolotls in there. They will be at room temp (low to mid 70sF) as will the platies.

 

[kclinton]

Axies should be kept at a lower temp than that about 60-65 is the best higher they will be stressed.

 

[Reptileguy2727]

I had them at room temp before and they were fine. I am not worried about the temp and I am not buying a chiller. I am mainly concerned about compatibility.

 

[carpy]

the answer to the compatibility lies with the temperature. they are not compatible because they NEED differant temperatures.

just because you had your platies, or axolotls at room temperature doesnt mean they were both not suffering. i am sure if i were to send you to greenland with only a t-shirt on you would survive, but the question is whether it is good for you or not ( you would probably get pneomonia, and who knows what your axies may have, one thing for sure with axies is if you put them in higher temps they get stressed out) you would change the situation, by buying a jumper or coat. axolotls cannot do this, they are unable to change the conditions they are in, the same goes for platies, and so it should be your duty to give them their optimum requirements.

 

[zuko]

the answer to the compatibility lies with the temperature. they are not compatible because they NEED differant temperatures.

just because you had your platies, or axolotls at room temperature doesnt mean they were both not suffering. i am sure if i were to send you to greenland with only a t-shirt on you would survive, but the question is whether it is good for you or not ( you would probably get pneomonia, and who knows what your axies may have, one thing for sure with axies is if you put them in higher temps they get stressed out) you would change the situation, by buying a jumper or coat. axolotls cannot do this, they are unable to change the conditions they are in, the same goes for platies, and so it should be your duty to give them their optimum requirements.

I just wanted to say : well said.

on a side note: you don't NEED to buy a chiller... there are plenty of really ingenious solutions to cool the water down that people have come up with ON THIS FORUM. It's just a mouse click away.

 

[i_love_necturus]

on a side note: you don't NEED to buy a chiller... there are plenty of really ingenious solutions to cool the water down that people have come up with ON THIS FORUM. It's just a mouse click away.

Yeah, I use frozen water bottles, they work great!

 

[morph]

very well said alex.

Your first thoughts should be of the wellbeing of the animals and NOT of your personal enjoyment!

 

[Reptileguy2727]

When I had them before they showed no signs of stress in room temp. And the platies bred like crazy and grew bigger than I have ever seen platies. So if the biggest platies I have ever seen breeding like crazy are stressed, then I don't know. And I go by what I see. If I were to have ever seen any signs of stress I would have done something, just as I will do something if I ever see it with these guys.

I am endothermic, that means that I have a very narrow range at which I my body can properly function and I am not adapted to a cold environment. Axolotls are exothermic and can function at a wider range than endotherms. At varying temps the biggest difference is metabolism. A higher temp means the animal's metabolism is higher. At higher temps one of the biggest problems is that water cannot dissolve as much gas as at lower temps, which makes it harder for the animal to get as much oxygen. This simply means that the oxygenation in the tank needs to be improved.

I have looked at different books and online resources and keep seeing the low 70s and room temperature as being fine for them. Others list the 60s as ideal. Others list both stating that the 60s is ideal but that the lower 70s or room temperature is fine as well. This reminds of goldfish. They are a cool water fish and in general room temp may be higher than ideal, but they are perfectly fine in room temp (or higher, as demonstrated by a few of mine that were in with water turtles and grew like weeds and healthy as ever).

My concern is always first for the animals and if I had any signs that I was doing harm I would change my methods, just as I do with my fish all the time.

Has anyone had success with any fish with axolotls?

 

[mantighoul]

Well this is not going to be the "dont do it is bad" post. It is some background, because things need explanations, not just statements for people to understand. Here it goes:

If your room temperature stays in the 70's-high 60's and your area has good climate control tecnically, temperature wise, it is tolerable, but not advisable in the long run. If you care about welfare of living creature more than "lookin at something pretty" the mixing of these two species, based on geographic origins and temperature needs makes the scenario one that should be avoided. Just because you can put something together does not necesarily mean you should. If you have many years in an aquarium setting, and have biology degrees, animal behavior, evolutionary sciences, worked in a lab of scientific instituions, etc, you may know something I do not. If you do not have all those credentials leave this sort of experamenting to people who know what they are doing.

Platies are from a tropical area and it is suggested ideal temperature is 18 – 25°C. At least with wild platies. If they are sword tails, they are hybrids for the pet industry, but i do not know much about X. helleri specie of the hybrid. It is even stated that platies live in warm springs.
The domain of X. maculatus extends from Ciudad Viracruz-Belize. This is more southerm and more costalthan the realm of axolotl. Totally differnt habitats.

Axolotl are native to the water area of Cuidad de Mexico. This area is the valley of Mexico which sits on a high plateau. Just because Xochimilco is in Mexico doesnt mean the water is warm and a "tropical" in temperature in the sence.
"The water temperature in Xochimilco rarely rises above 20°C (68°F), though it may fall to 6 or 7°C (43°F) in the winter, and perhaps lower."

In other words, axolotls do not tend to live at similar temperatures as platies. Infact, there is barely an overlap. Just because you state that axolotls are exothermic does not mean it is ok to keep them in the high 70's range for too long (infact dont even keep them above 20°C if it is possible. There are heat related illness due to prolong periods in high temperature. It causes stress also. A stressed out animal tends to succumb to injury, illness and eventually death. heat+stress=immuosupression and axolotls have an interesting immune sytem, but if you keep them in "bad" condition, all their wonderful regnerative and healing properties they evolved with wont help too much.


If you want the platies to "feed" the axolotls, raise them in a seperate tank. Usually "food" is grown in seperate areas and only introduced in feeding. If you are really set on keeping other creatures with axolotl find one with a closer temperature range. Plants are nice too, if you want "something pretty to look at". Please read the articles on Caudata Culture and reputable amphibian sites, especially articles relating "mixing species" and "diseaes" I am sure you can find something relating to axololts and shrimp. I know on caudata culture the articles about keeping salamanders with other creatures is mentioned. It says which animals are ok and which are not. If you want a nice looking display tanks with axolotls, i sugges some plants, nice rock works, nice scape first and foremost. If you think it is still missing something, add some other critters that are recomended in a FAQ's section. I suggest you give it a read, incase you do not want to get into details listed here is what it has to say about fish
http://www.caudata.org/cc/faq/FAQhou.shtml


"What type of fish can live with my newt?

Most fish in pet shops can NOT live with newts because they need much warmer temperatures than newts do. Tropical fish can’t take the cold temperature that is so healthy for most species of newt. Listed below are a few fish and other animals that would be OK to add to your tank. However, watch for any signs of stress to the newts, and note that a few newt species are able to catch and eat fish, snails, or shrimp.

* White Cloud Minnows
* Guppies**
* Zebra, Gold, and Blue Danios**
* Scissor-tail Rasbora**
* Ram’s Horn Snails
* Freshwater shrimp
* **These fish species are suitable only if you have a species of newt that will do well above 68°F (20°C) year-round. This is pushing the lower limit of tolerance for these fish, and pushing the upper limit of wintertime temperature for most newts."





here are the "mixing disater stories" several fish species are mentioned with nasty results. I guess you can use that to putting fish on your list of "what not to keep with my salamander"
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

I hope this helps with some of your questions and able to understans answers to other.

 

[Reptileguy2727]

Fishbase.org (one of the if not THE most reliable sources for information about fish and their native conditions) lists platies at 64-77F. Drsfostersmith.com lists the exact same parameters. Mongabay.com lists them at 68-79F. All of these support that they are ideal in a room temp (lower 70sF).

I am not worried about keeping them together. I would like something else in the tank but am not worried about it because my top concern is their well-being. Temperatures would be fine together but it is the threats to eachother that mean they are too likely to have problems for me to put them together.

I will not feed the axolotls live food unless I absolutely have to in order to get them eating (which they all seem to be doing fine with New Life Spectrum pellets).

I am also not wanting to keep them in the high 70s, I will have them in room temperature water which is approximately 72F.

I won't use frozen water bottles, that would just lead to unstable and fluctuating temps. An unideal parameter with high water quality is usually much better than an ever-changing parameter. That is how discus and freshwater rays can breed in 8.2.

 

[Kaysie]

I've had no problem keeping axolotls at the low 70's. I only intervene when the tank temperatures rise above 75F for more than a few hours. Otherwise, I let them be. The fluctuation can sometimes be more dangerous than the warm temperatures.

As per the platys, I recommend against it. They'll nibble on axolotl gills.

As for live food, earthworms are a 'live food' and much better than fish.

 

[Reptileguy2727]

I will use nothing but pellets (New Life Spectrum to be exact). This has proven to be an optimal diet for fish and axolotls and I will stick with it. I don't like to use any live food unless the animal is refusing all prepared food and requires live to get it to eat, whihc does not seem to be the case with my axolotls.

 

[Kaysie]

Reptile guy, axolotls are not fish, and to say that it is an optimal diet for axolotls without providing the nutritional information is bad practice.

Live food is what axolotls eat in the wild. Feeding pellets is fine, as long as they provide the proper nutritional balance, but using live food is not 'bad'. I've never fed anything but live food.

 

[Reptileguy2727]

I have found that live food increases aggression, is not nutritionally complete, and can introduce parasites and diseases. This holds true for fish, reptiles, and even other animals. Unless you are feeding all the live foods the axolotls would find in their home lake and in the same proportions, you are not providing a complete natural diet. This food is top notch, it is allowing freshwater fish to truly bring out the best of their natural colors, in cases where no other diet has gotten the same results. It is also allowing many saltwater fish that are otherwise impossible to keep in captivity to thrive. And it is not just fish, even invertebrates are thriving on it. Axolotls are not fish, but if they are occupying the same niche as a fish would in that lake, how is the exact same diet for fish not going to be sufficient for the axolotls? Live foods can provide good results, but I find that high quality pellets will provide even better results, and that is what I shoot for, the best I can do, not just 'fine' or 'good enough'. If you have not researched NLS I highly suggest that everyone does so. Their website provides a lot of information about the food and the actual results people are getting. We can debate all we want about the theoretical pros and cons of live versus prepared food, but the results that people are actually getting when they use solely this food speak much louder and inarguably than either of us ever could.

 

[Kaysie]

I find it hard to believe you'll argue 'compete natural diet' when you're feeding pellets.

Regardless, fish food is not always acceptable for amphibians. Axolotls are not fish. They have different nutritional requirements, regardless of what niche they fill. Dragonfly larvae fill the exact same niche (top predator in a body of water [in this case, vernal pools]) but that doesn't mean they have the same nutritional requirements.

If your pellets are indeed high quality, that's fine. But you still haven't stated their nutritional makeup or ingredients so I'm doubting the quality of them. Regardless of what some 'website' says (user testimonials are often falsified), data is where it's at. If the pellets aren't providing the proper nutrients, they're ****, regardless of what else eats them and does just fine.

 

[morph]

i think its a shame that you aren't listening to the advice of people with up to years of experience caring for and breeding axolotls. there is absolutely no substitute for the hundreds of combined years of experience found on this forum alone. nobody is making up the things they are saying. they are simply trying to explain to you how best to care for your animal. i hope you take some of the advice given in this thread and if you dont i hope that your axie has no ill effects from inproper care.

 

[Jennewt]

I think you guys are giving Reptileguy a hard of a time, but overall he's doing the right things. He's resisting your ideas a bit, but that's a normal human tendency.

I haven't heard of NLS foods, and I can't find their website (Google brings up various places that sell their food, but not the company itself). I think a diet of quality pellets is fine, as long as they are pellets designed for carnivores (NLS seems to have a variety of different formulations). I think that in many cases, the advantages of live foods for caudates outweigh the risks, but I don't think there is any problem with a staple diet of quality pellets.

I don't know the temperament of platys very well, so I can't say if they would nibble the axies or not. If they do, then separate them. I do keep white cloud minnows with axolotls and haven't had problems. The advantage of white clouds is that if you should get the opportunity to let the tank temp drop below 64 (which would be a nice thing for the axies), WCM will be perfectly happy with that.

There is a significant difference between the temperature tolerance of goldfish and axolotls: goldfish do fine in both cold and warm water. I have seen ordinary goldfish living quite happily in runoff from a hot spring (over 80F). I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work for axies, even if they adapted to it gradually.

 

[Reptileguy2727]

nlpublish.com has the testimonials. I get the same testimonials when I talk to others who use it as well as the amazing colors in my own fish. This food is not a hoax with a site with a bunch of made up testimonials. There is even a letter from the president of the American Cichlid Association explaining how by using this food he got colors out of his cichlids that he had never gotten before that helped him reconfigure his male to female ratios because it brought out the colors in his sub-dominant males who had looked like females. My own mbunas and peacocks are showing colors I have never seen on these fish before, ever. Not in person, not in books, not online. My discus are showing better colors than any discus I have seen in person that I know were not hormone treated. Moorish Idols are living for years, fat and happy on this stuff, and if you know anything about saltwater you knwo how significant that is. If their diet is so different from a fish's diet, why is everyone feeding a bunch of foods that you also feed to fish? Google their ingredients and some sites selling their food will list the ingredients. One thing I have noticed is that when you get into very high quality foods, the ingredients between the different varieties are very similar. So most of their formulas are very similar if not identical. This was one of the reasons I was VERY skeptical of this 'magical' food I kept hearing about. I even tried NLS as part of the variety I was laready feeding but did not see a difference so I didn't use it for a long time. It was after I used it as the sole food that I was convinced. The colors that I have gotten, and they keep improving, continue to convince me that this is the best food out there. Most of the people I have talked to use trout chow for axolotls, even breeders, so I fail to see how pellets are bad or even unideal. And I was not saying that pellets is a natural food, I am saying that if you are thinking you are feeding a 'natural diet' when you are feeding a bunch of foods they would never see in the wild, I think you are mistaken.

I emailed the breeder I got them from and asked what temperature he keeps them at and if mine would be okay. He said he tries to keep it below 75F. So if you get them from a place that keep them at 64F or something, keep them cool, but mine were bred at warmer temps, so that is what I will keep them at, room temp.

I have some white clouds in a 10 gallon room temp planted tank so I may consider those, but I am not too worried about it. I just figured if there was no issue with axolotls and platies together I think that would be a cool tank.