Phenomenon?

[RobM]

Hi everyone,

I come to you today, incredibly confused...
I was doing my routinely water change for my C.orientalis, and I suddenly noticed something in front of the pump I use to extract water/debris. I was like...."hmmm hang on... I know what that is" , so quickly I removed the pump and turned it off so I didn't suck it up. I then had another proper look, and it was confirmed, there was a little newt larvae!

Now...how is this possible, I ask myself.
I believed (and still do), that all my C.orientalis are male...and besides, I have seen no evidence of eggs, or anything else related to them. I have checked over the whole tank, and no signs of anything else. I had the whole tank emptied 3/4 weeks ago for a thorough clean, so how is this one even possible.

Now I did move some plants around when I did my thorough clean, so I ask myself if they could have been transfered from elsewhere. Now my N.Kaiseri are all female, and all their eggs have been duds (besides I don't recall moving plants from them), so it cannot be from them.
Now that leaves the empty tanks. Yes, I definitely took plants from those, but they had no newts in them. I had some C.pyrrhogaster eggs a couple months ago, but the larvae all died, and it would be too long ago to be this size (besides they were not in this tank). Also the colour and size is all wrong in comparison.
It certainly is small enough to be C.orientalis as it is about 1cm long (and already has front legs), however its darker than C.orientalis larvae I have had in the past.
Anyway, what do you guys think?

Also, what should I do with it now? I have removed it from the adults, as it is certainly mouth sized still, but I don't have any food for it at the moment. I have started the brine shrimp up, but they will take a while to hatch. I have put lots of water and plants from the adults tank, to provide a natural source of food, however, I doubt there is much to eat.

Any advice and comments, much appreciated, thanks!

 

[Otterwoman]

I once found a T. grans larvae that had just morphed in a tank of I. alpestris.

 

[evut]

I think you only have one option: look after it and see what it grows into

If it is a C. orientalis from your "males", is it possible that it could have a different colour because it has been eating different stuff than the previous ones (if those were raised by you with BBS or whatever you used)?

 

[michael]

A good friend once accused me of putting a T. granulosa larvae or egg in her L. alpestris tank. I didn't do it. My guess is it got their by moving plants around or using nets, siphons, or equipment in more than one tank. An egg probably stuck somewhere and got moved.

Chopped black worms and daphnia should be good food.

 

[Jennewt]

Interesting mystery! Until your BBS are ready, you could give it some tank mulm - the brown debris from under the gravel in your tanks. This contains a lot of small moving food (if anyone doubts this, just look at some under a microscope!). As long as it is well-decayed mulm (not fresh poo) it won't hurt water quality.

Cynops larvae that grow up in adults' tanks are generally darker in color than those raised separately. That doesn't surprise me. Actually, finding a larva like this doesn't surprise me much either, as I've had some similar experiences. Moving plants around has always turned out to be the mistake for me.

 

[RobM]

Thanks for all the replies.

A mini update: It has developed a lighter colour and has been eating well. Becoming pretty certain its a orientalis because of the size, but that still seems like a phenomenon to me! haha

 

[Jennewt]

Based on appearance, I'd say it's almost certainly a Cynops larva.

Can you take photos of your all-male orientalis?

 

[RobM]

Haha I certainly can Jen. See attachments!

 

[Azhael]

I´d say number 1 has a very good chance of being female. It´s a bit tricky since i can´t see the tail length but i´d say female rather than male. Number 3 could be female too, but the head does look a bit like a male´s so it could be a male out of breeding condition, i dunno...

The little larva is H.orientalis in my opinion, but you should be able to tell for sure once it develops its hind limbs.

 

[RobM]

Number 1, would be my best guess at being female too, it has always been bigger, and rounder.
Number 3, spends most of its time out of water still but does have a slight blue tinge in water though and is by far the skinniest/smallest.
I am pretty sure I saw papillae in two of them months ago, so I would assume two at least are male.

After I uploaded the last pics, I was able to get one of Number 1 and 3 together:

 

[Azhael]

Ah, this is easier now, 1 is female and 3 is male, for sure.

 

[Molch]

I recently found a half-grown alpestis larva in a shallow tray with some discarded plants - I thought I had checked the plants very thoroughly for eggs, but, uh, apparently not

Well, congrats grandpa Rob. May it live long and prosper

 

[RobM]

Thanks guys, lets see how it gets on. Back legs are starting to develop!

 

[RobM]

Hey all,

Could do with some pretty urgent advice.
I think this little one is preparing to go through metamorphosis, he has darkened pretty much overnight, his tail has gone more pointy and his gills are curling back and getting smaller.
However, he doesn't seem to be doing too well its like he doesn't know whether to be on land or in the water. In the water, he floats on his back, which cant be good, I have righted him... is there anything else I can do? or is this down to him to pull through?

Any advice much appreciated, thanks!

 

[Bellabelloo]

Are you able to post a picture so we can see just how ready he could be?

 

[RobM]

I would assume not very far into metamorphism but I haven't done this before...

Here are some pics, sorry they are not very good, I don't want to stress him, although I fear he may already be dead...

 

[Bellabelloo]

Floating upside down doesn't seem too good. I would maybe put him into a very shallow water set up, maybe a sandwich box size and have it gently sloped so that it can emerge easily if needs be. As the water volume is decreased, do make sure the container is kept somewhere that will not get overly warm. I looked after one of Eva's recently and one did morph very quickly ( over night) but the gills where a little shorter. Hopefully someone with more experience with this species can advise further.

 

[RobM]

The air con has been on for the last hour, it is cold in the room now.
There is a rock in the lunchbox with him, creating a slope out of the water, and java moss going from the water up the rock.
Should I still decrease the water? I am worried he still needs to be completely covered.

 

[evut]

I would say 1.5 - 2 cm water with some places to emerge from water should be enough. Pieces of plants and moss scattered around are good. And a lid is important. Good luck to the little guy!

 

[Azhael]

It doesn´t really look like it´s about to morph, unless it´s a premature morpher. I would expect the head to change a bit more before it morphs, and the colors to become more solid. Again, some individuals are premature and morph very small and underdeveloped, which could be the case. Offer both land and water and let it choose, they know better. I found a morph today in the parent´s tank......argh..it never ends...xD Good luck!