Peeling Axolotls, Why? Do Albinos react to UV stronger??

[Gothica Lily]

Hi everyone,

Need some advice: both of our axies' skin seems to be peeling... Both are albinos. Because we have somne live plants which need light, we have normal white lamps there (we have them on for about 5 hours a day).

I noticed our white albino girl has been peeling the worst, and the golden albino which has sone leucistic color to it, nowhere near as much, but a tiny bit was coming off. I was worried it was fungus, and examined their gills which seem intact: pink to the tips, fluffy and all...

Diet is Night Crawlers. Gill growth and body mass doing well. Regenerative processes work well (bruises heal, damaged limbs growing).

Should I be running to the shops to buy a blacklight? Oh, and what is the norm on Nitrate levels with these axolotls? When should we be concerned?

Thanks,
Angie

 

[SludgeMunkey]

I feel UV is not necessary for axolotls. (although others have different opinions)

Peeling is often a sign of water chemistry issues or other skin irritation like parasites. It can also be a sign of other illness.

What is the water temperature?
What exactly are your chemistry test results?
Do you have hard or soft water?
Are the gills shrinking and/or the tip of the tail cupped?

More information on this topic can be found here:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/faq/FAQwat.shtml
http://www.axolotl.org/requirements.htm
http://www.caudata.org/cc/faq/FAQhea.shtml

 

[Darkmaverick]

Hi Angie,

Johnny gives good advice so do heed his recommendations.

1 - Albinos of any species will be more sensitive to light. This is because pigmentation itself has some UV protectant function. It buffers against UV light penetrating to reach deeper skin layers. In addition, photo sensitive tissues like the pink albino eyes are exceptionally vulnerable to UV damage if exposed to high levels or/and prolonged duration. If you look at the axie's eyes , you can sometimes see more other than a reflective ring, a circular reflective central region called the tapetum lucidum. This region actually manyfold increases light refraction within the eye for dim vision. This is more evident in albinos compared to wildtypes due to the absence of pigment. As such, light intensity within the albino axie's eyes are actually increased much more extremely and hence more prone to damage.

2 - Do you provide hiding places for your axies to retreat to for shade? Plenty of shaded hiding places are a necessity for axie tanks. A translucent plastic pipe for eg. will not fulfill all requirements of a good hiding space as it doesn't provide ample shade.

3 - There is no necessity to get special lights. A low wattage, fluorescent type light meant for aquariums will suffice. You can automate the lights to come on for only 6 hours each day. Fluorescent lights will be cooler compared to incadescent lights. They do also provide a very low UV spectrum that will support plant growth. This is provided that you select appropriate plant types that can thrive in dark, cool conditions seen in the axie tank.

4 - It will be best if you can provide photographs of the axies. This allows us to determine if the peeling you observed is normal skin shedding, chemical trauma, a nasty bacterial or fungal infection or a parasite problem. The treatment strategy differs.

5 - It is best to keep nitrates below 60. Anything higher tends to cause some pH problems and algae blooms. Ammonia and nitrites should be 0.

6 - Your axie diet is appropriate. It is reassuring that the axie is regenerating and healing properly.

7 - The issue of necessity of UV lights has came up quite frequently. Most vets were taught to advice clients to provide a very low level of UV light exposure and for short durations. Hiding places are a necessity for shade so the axie can retreat whenever they wish. Have a read through this thread.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59626&page=2

Cheers.

 

[Gothica Lily]

Hi Rayson & Johnny,

Thanks for your concern, I know albino animals are sensitive to UV damage, but I wasn't sure if it was a distincts problem amongst axolotl owners. As mentioned, the leucistic albino male seems to be peeling much less, but the girl without any pigment to protect her skin looks like she is sheding skin considerably more.

My concern is that our girl Peony is incurring damage too often: she sheds skin most of the time now.

Water chemistry is:
Amonnia & Nitrate = 0;
Nitrate is 40, PH = 7.2,
Water Hardness = 268.5 ppm.
t = 20 C (average)

We were told optimal Ph level = 7.4 for axolotls. Temperature, on the other hand is an issue at the moment (and it is winter in Australia, not even summer yet, but we'll see if we can manage it). The 4 ft tank sits at an average of 20C. We don't allow it to get to 22 C and chuck in an ice bottle to try to keep it at 20 (as we wouldn't manage to keep the temperature stable at optimal 16-18 C without appropriate equipment when we are away).

We are also consideting EL lighting for it's lower UV impact....

Also, the skin coming off Peony seems to be clean, i.e. no mucus of sort surrounding her, peeling skin seethrough, easy to remove with a finger and no signs of fungus or other illnesses on new skin between the shedings... I'll try to post pictures. She doesn't mind a pat: I felt her, - doesn't seem any slimier than normal either...

Angie

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Hi Rayson & Johnny,

Thanks for your concern, I know albino animals are sensitive to UV damage, but I wasn't sure if it was a distincts problem amongst axolotl owners. As mentioned, the leucistic albino male seems to be peeling much less, but the girl without any pigment to protect her skin looks like she is sheding skin considerably more.

My concern is that our girl Peony is incurring damage too often: she sheds skin most of the time now.

Water chemistry is:
Amonnia & Nitrate = 0;
Nitrate is 40, PH = 7.2,
Water Hardness = 268.5 ppm.
t = 20 C (average)

We were told optimal Ph level = 7.4 for axolotls. Temperature, on the other hand is an issue at the moment (and it is winter in Australia, not even summer yet, but we'll see if we can manage it). The 4 ft tank sits at an average of 20C. We don't allow it to get to 22 C and chuck in an ice bottle to try to keep it at 20 (as we wouldn't manage to keep the temperature stable at optimal 16-18 C without appropriate equipment when we are away).

We are also consideting EL lighting for it's lower UV impact....

Also, the skin coming off Peony seems to be clean, i.e. no mucus of sort surrounding her, peeling skin seethrough, easy to remove with a finger and no signs of fungus or other illnesses on new skin between the shedings... I'll try to post pictures. She doesn't mind a pat: I felt her, - doesn't seem any slimier than normal either...

Angie

Your water chemistry looks pretty good, although I worry a bit about the hardness and nitrate.
Your water hardness is about normal for Aussie tap water, from what I have read. It may be a bit too low for your axolotls though. Thanks to the lack of a national drinking water standard concerning hardness here in the US, we have liquid rock at the tap. In my experience, axolotls do much better in this water (carbonate hardness around 350-450 ppm).

I think the root cause of your issue here may be your nitrate levels. Personally, I like to keep mine at 20 or lower. Thankfully, this is a pretty easy part of the chemistry to fix. A few water changes and a little extra siphoning of the substrate (if any) and you can bring it under control.

It sounds to me like your pet is doing well, it is just having an adverse reaction to the water. I would do a few 20% water changes over the next two weeks and see if the drop in nitrate coincides with an improvement in the shedding issue.

As for the hardness issue, I hope some of our Aussie members more familiar with the water chemistry down there can offer better advice.

EDIT: A trick I use to deal with the amounts of UV emitted from standard aquarium lighting is a peice of window glass cut to size. This blocks, most, if not all of the UV without affecting the lighting effect.

 

[Darkmaverick]

Hi Angie,

Your tank management is fine. I doubt its a water chemistry issue in this case.

Albinos are more sensitive to UV than pigmented ones. Amphibians are more sensitive to UV compared to any other species of animal. So albino axies are hence even much more sensitive to UV. This means you really need to ensure they have good dark hiding spots to retreat to.

A temperature of 20 degree celsius is on the high end. Some more sensitive axies can actually get stressed and sick even at this temperature. It would be best to lower it.

Do you use any bacteria supplement type products in the water? I find that upon addition of such products, my axies tend to shed a lot of skin and i stopped using them since.

I don't recommend you 'pat' your axie. Firstly that can damage the sensitive skin and rub off the protective slime layer. Secondly, any residual products like lotion and perfume on your skin can cause chemical trauma. Lastly, the types of bacteria on our skin is different to that in aquatic environment. By touching the axie, you can actually introduce an infection by the normal bacteria on our skin.

Unfortunately photos will still be necessary. I cannot assess whether the skin peeling is normal or not without a photo. I would have to look at the extent and severity of the skin shedding to make an assessment.

Cheers.

 

[Gothica Lily]

Here are some pictures...
In one of the last, Peony is assessing herself in the mirror lol
Uhmm, so, Rayson, how do you suggest I feed them? I have a feeling they have been hand raised. Love grabbing worms from your hands. We feed them by hand, they don't eat otherwise

 

[Darkmaverick]

Hi Angie,

Firstly, the gravel you are currently using in the axie tank is not appropriate. They are the just the size that can cause impaction and death. Please do remove them.

It is perfectly fine to hand feed your axies. You can use a pair of forceps or even fingers to dangle a worm in front of their faces. There is no necessity for you to stroke or pat your axie's body with your fingers though.

The skin peeling looks like normal skin shedding to me. It should resolve in a couple of days. You can try soaking the axie in a tea bath if you are very worried. Tea baths can help sooth skin shedding. Here is an extract from caudata culture.

" I mainly use teabaths for minor skin problems. It may also be used with fungal problems but on that account I prefer salt baths. Tea has a slightly antifungal and antibacterial effect (resulting from tannins) and additionally it closes the pores in the skin a little bit (mainly resulting from tannin and caffeine). The skin tightens and gets some kind of protective layer, making it harder for fungi and bacteria to intrude the body. On the other hand it makes it harder for salt or medicine to reach pathogens which are already inside the body - that is the reason I do not use it on fungal infections, although a tea bath is sometimes recommended as a cure for fungal infections by some people.
The medication is as follows: I take one bag of black tea without any additional aroma (it is important to use black tea because this kind of tea is fermented and so it has tannins) for every 10 litres of water (preferably used in a quarantine tank). This tea gets dashed with boiling water in a seperate bowl - I leave it there for at least 10 to 15 minutes so the tannins are resolved into the water. The tea has to cool down and is finally added to the quarantine water. After a week I make a bigger change of water (60% at least), the rest of the tea is removed over time by normal water changes. If you have to make more regular water changes (f.i. in a small bowl or tank) the tea concentration can be refilled. As far as I know there are no negative effects even for long term treatment."

Cheers.

 

[ianclick]

Hi Angie,

I have had some success with tea baths made with black tea, An associate who is an alternative health practitioner suggested Green Tea which I have used with great results for peeling/shedding it seems to have higher antioxidant levels. I haven't had any fungus to try it on yet.

 

[Gothica Lily]

Hi guys,

Thanks for valuable advice. I know some companies use dyies in tea bags, so I was happy to hear there was some success with green tea. If I will use black tea, I think I'll stick to tea leaves rather than bags
I am happy that she seems to be okay (she was posing for your photoes happily yesterday).

Sorry, forgot to mention, we use no bacterial additives, so it shouldn't be the cause.

With the gravel though, we have been repeatedly recommended to use size 12 mm and up, which is what we purchased (ordered especially for them and paid a several hundred dollars to fill the tank...). As we've been told they grow up to a foot long. And, having fed them, it looks like at this stage they would stuggle to swallow those heavy pebbles.. We even have trouble lifting them when gravel vacuuming.

What is the gravel size you have been told is safe? We also really tried to get the tank safe stuff, not to just grab stones of the side of the road (who knows what was on them). One of the shops we went to said to just do that lol

Weird world.

 

[Darkmaverick]

Hi Angie,

For axies, its best either to use sand as substrate or no substrate at all. You can go for bigger rocks if you wish but pebbles, gravel and marbles should not be in the tank. Unless you can get gravel the size of 2mm (NOT cm) and below in diameter, anything else is a risk. Axies have a huge gape and can swallow what seemed like an impossibility.

Have a read through this article.

http://www.caudata.org/axolotl-sanctuary/Aquascape.shtml

It will tell you everything you need to know about sand, rocks, wood and other things you wish to put in your tank.

Cheers.

 

[Gothica Lily]

The links, were very helpful.

Will look into changing their gravel & perform water changes required.

Many thanks for your advice, everyone!



Angie