Paramesotriton wounds

[filipe]

Hi all,

I recently acquired a couple of Paramesotriton (I'm still not very sure what species) and found out yesterday that the female had an infected wound on the dorsal surface of the right forelimb; I also found some petechiae near her mouth (so assumed it was a septic animal) and she was acting more slugish than the male, spending more time on dry land.

I promptly isolated her in a hospital tank and started her on a continuous bath of Ringer's Amphibian solution (changed every 24h), topical colagen ointment and oral antibiotics every 24h. Today the petechiae are gone but there are no changes on the wound.

I'm not sure what will be the come-out of this case but just wanted to keep you posted on it's evolution so that my experience could be of some use for all.

Please feel free to ask or suggest.



Filipe Martinho

 

[andrew read]

hi filipe,
which antibiotic are you using.
andrew

 

[jesper]

Collagen ointment? An ointment based on the structural protein collagen? What is the mechanism for that? Does it help seal the wound?
Wouldn't it be better to treat with a second antibiotic locally (a topical salve for example)?

(Message edited by Jesper on December 20, 2004)

 

[john]

What would be a good topical salve. One of my new newts has only 3 toes on his right front leg, and although it looks healed, it has alittle white still on it.

 

[filipe]

Hi!

I'm using Enrofloxacin (Baytril). If an antibiotic is given by a systemic route (as for example, orally) it reaches every tissue in the body, including the wound so there's really no point on using a local AB (as a matter of fact, if you use only local ABs you might miss other possible infections. Also, a lot of these animals- like this one- are septic, so they really need systemic AB)

As for collagen, this is a protein-like material that builds a lot of tissues, like connective tissue, bone, cartilage, muscle, etc. By using a collagen based product you get the following effects:

1. Hemostasis (controls bleeding);
2. Stimulates the growth and multiplication of fibroblasts and other cells;
3. Acts as a support network for the healing bone and cartilage;
4. Decreases inflamation;
5. and a lot of other effects that at the moment I can't remember...

Anyway, by using collagen based ointments (I've used it in a number of different species- this is the first time I use it in an amphibian) you get faster and more complete healing.

 

[jesper]

Hi,
I never disputed the use of a systemically used drug.... A septic animal should be given systemic AB, possibly several as fast as possible.

Sometimes you want to use two kinds of antibiotics to cover the whole spectrum, enrofloxacin is a broad spectrum drug but it does not cover the whole spectrum(no AB does).
One strategy is using one AB systemically and the other one locally.

I have heard of collagen-based ointments but never seen any. Tell me is these effects scientifically proven?

What kind of ointment? Cream or salve?
A cream is more common but more or less useless if it is kept in an aquatic environment as it will dissolve(collagen is also water soluble).

Yes I know exactly what collagen is since it makes up about a 1/4 of the protein content of the body. Collagen is a protein and not "protein-like". Its made up of three strands of intertwined helices, the AA content is about 1/3 glycine 1/3 proline and 1/3 hydroxyproline.

Can you recommend any brand?

 

[filipe]

Hi!

I started this newt on Metronidazole baths (to cover all the anaerobic bacteria that ar out of Enrofloxacin range) every 24h.

I believe that this collagen product is more of a salve since it sticks to te wound and takes several hours to disappear.

I also know what collagen is (I had to study it in Biochemistry classes in university

) bu thanks for the correction anyway.

I think I'll start her on tube feeding tomorrow, since she didn't eat anything so far. I'm also wondering if at this point wouldn't it be better to amputate that extremity. There's no signs of infection or gangrene but the digits are held in place by a small strip of flesh. Anyway, I'll just decide for this procedure as a last resort.

 

[jesper]

Wow, where do you get all the meds my friend

Watch out for overdosing and such stuff, do they newts do well with metronidazol!
I'll have free access to meds in Feb when I start working as a pharmacist! Wohoo!
It sounds like you are a vet my friend! Then you should be giving me advice hehe.
Great then you can specialize on amphibians and tell us everything we need to know

 

[filipe]

Well, you got that right! I'm a vet!
I work mostly with exotics but my caseload is a lot of birds, rabbits and rodents and a few reptiles. I don't see amphibians that often... some axolotls and a red-eyed-tree-frog. Most of my experience comes from my collection, which fortunately doesn't give a chance that often to practice. I also believe that this is a place to change information, so I'm open to everyone's advice.

See ya!

 

[andrew read]

hello again filipe,
what caused that wound might not be the same organism that caused the septicaemia; you may have more than one problem. If you don't get any more wounds appearing but the septicaemia goes away because of the enrofloxacin, and the wound continues to grow, then i think you had at least two problems. Has the wound got better or worse.
andrew

 

[andrew read]

hi john,
i think that if the skin isn't broken you're better off not putting anything on it for fear of making things worse.
andrew