Paramesotriton Tankmates?

[VolatileXIII]

Hey gang.

I was bumming around, watching "Behemoth" (my Chinensis "male") swimming around and I noticed something missing in his tank...

Tankmates!

His significant other, "Leviathan" (my Chinensis "female") is in quarantine right now because of an unknown white spot (see pictures in profile) so he seems lonely.

Is there any SPECIFIC fish I can maybe put in?

Something non-aggressive is an obvious, as is the fact that it can't have barbs or spines. I've read guppies, but does that include the fancy tail? I

What about some sort of shrimp?

The tank is shared between me and the mrs so something pretty would get me brownie-points. LOL.

Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched and searched then I clicked the "check if already posted" button and nothing came up so I assumed it'd be fine.

THANKS!

 

[eljorgo]

Hey there.
You can house with your chinesis male white clouds and shrimps like neocaridina sp. There is not problem at all at least with these 2 species.
Hope I have been usefull,
Cheers,

 

[VolatileXIII]

Hey there.
You can house with your chinesis male white clouds and shrimps like neocaridina sp. There is not problem at all at least with these 2 species.
Hope I have been usefull,
Cheers,

I've recently read Rosey Red Minnows, Fathead Minnows & White Cloud Mountain Minnows.

Neocaridina Sp? Can you elaborate? I don't know much about shrimp or shellfish.

Thanks!

 

[eljorgo]

Hey there.
You might consider this useful:
Neocaridina heteropoda var. red or cherry shrimp is a species of fresh watershrimp from Taiwan. The natural coloration of the shrimp is green-brown, however the red morph is much more frequently sold. Full-grown cherry shrimp reach about 4 cm in length. They prefer clean water, with a pH of 6.5-8.0, and a temperature of 14-30°C. Cherry shrimp are omnivores and may live 1-2 years. This shrimp is easy to care and breed as well. They will adapt to a wide range of water conditions, and will thrive in the same conditions as many common aquarium fish. A few cherry shrimp can be kept in a desktop aquarium of 4-8 litres capacity, and a setup of 40 litres (10 gallons) or more will allow for an active colony. The shrimp spends a great deal of its time sitting on aquatic plants, when available, and hiding in them for protection, especially after molting. They also eat the film of algae and microorganisms which forms on plant leaves without harming the leaves in the process. Red cherry shrimp respond to the color of their background and substrate. If they are kept in a tank with light-colored substrate, they will become paler, even transparent. On a darker substrate, they take on their full red coloration. Color intensity also depends on the types of food available (live foods and those high in protein and fats are more beneficial than flake foods), water pH and temperature.Like most aquatic invertebrates, cherry shrimp are very sensitive to the presence of ammonia, nitrates, and most heavy metals (copper, zinc, lead, etc.). Placement in a tank which has not been properly cycled will quickly lead to illness and death, often within a few days, as does exposure to tap water run through copper pipes or otherwise contaminated with toxic metals or compounds. The red cherry shrimp is a non-aggressive shrimp. They are active throughout the day, and can be seen grazing on algae, aquarium decor or the sides of the tank, hunting detritus among the gravel, and sometimes even mating. Periodically a shrimp will shed its exoskeleton, leaving an empty white ghost of itself caught in the plants or drifting around the tank. This should be left in the tank, as the shrimp will eat it to recover the valuable minerals it contains. Female pregnant cherry shrimps tend to hide in the dark. If they feel endangered by enemies, they will abandon their eggs. They need an environment with wood or plants such as java moss to hide themselves and their babies in. When they are carrying the eggs under their bodies, they can be witnessed circulating water over the eggs with their legs to ensure good health. Red cherry shrimp are primarily algae eaters. They will eat any food intended for aquarium use, but some will prefer compressed algae discs. Blanched (boiled until soft) vegetables such as spinach can be used as a supplemental food, but should be fed sparingly. Uneaten vegetables can very quickly decompose and create water quality problems. Tubifex worms are also gladly accepted. If feeding commercial fish/shrimp food ensure that there is no copper added in as this is dangerous for shrimp. The male is smaller and less colorful than the female. The male's tail, not being needed to carry eggs, is thinner. The female is larger and displays a much darker and more extensive red color, and often has a "saddle" marking of developing eggs. Breeding red cherry shrimp is as easy as putting a pair of adult male and female together in an aquarium. You can observe the eggs developing in the female's ovaries as a white or yellow triangular "saddle" marking on her back. When she is ready to lay the eggs, she releases pheromones into the water to signal her availability to males. The male shrimp in the tank will often become agitated, swimming very actively about as they search for the source of the pheromones. After a brief mating process, the female lays her eggs and affixes them to her swimmerettes. The eggs turn darker and darker until the young shrimp hatch after about three weeks. When the young hatch, they are tiny (~1 mm) copies of the adults. They have no planktonic larval stage. They spend their first few days of life hiding among plants, where they are almost invisible, nibbling on the biofilm on the plants. They then emerge and graze on algae on tank surfaces and ornaments. In their natural environment, cherry shrimp are primarily prey animals. When kept in an aquarium, they are easily targeted by fish as potential food, even fish too small to eat them they may harass them and stress them to death, sometimes biting off limbs. For best results breeding should take place in isolation. Small, non-aggressive fish such as dwarf rasbora ,neon tetra and cardinal tetra, ottocinclus catfish, and some species of killifish can be kept with adult cherry shrimp as well as mountain clouds dwarf gouramis, etc. Most cichlids, including angel fish, will harrass and readily eat adults as well. With enough cover and hiding spaces, live plants such as moss work well, one can have a colony of cherry shrimp survive in a tank with larger fish preying on them. You can purchase these shrimp from online fish stores, at aquarium stores, and from private breeders; especially through local aquarium societies. There are also many similar Neocaridina species of different color that require the same conditions; these include snowballs, blue pearls, yellow shrimp, and wild type.
Pics:
Neocaridina heteropoda var. green

Neocaridina heteropoda var. red

Neocaridina heteropoda var. wild

These are my shrimps. Hope you like them.
Cheers:happy:,
Jorge

 

[Yahilles]

I've recently read Rosey Red Minnows, Fathead Minnows & White Cloud Mountain Minnows.

I advice you not using any species of fish... in my experience they make newts little more covert, even though they're small and harmless for them.

 

[merk199]

Also can be a disease vector....

 

[VolatileXIII]

Would the Chinensis not eat the Neocaridina Sp?

If I added a small school of White Cloud Mountain Minnows, perhaps around 5, I don't think that they would affect my behemoth's wandering about. It's a 45 Gallon tank and he's getting pretty big, Around 7" from nose to tail-tip.

And once his Chinensis tankmate is fully healed and out of quarantine, I'm sure they'll both pick a side of the tank and then the school can have whatever hides are left in the tank (alot).

I'm also thinking of putting live plants in. Is there any particular plants which are low maintenance and work well with the Chinensis species?

 

[VolatileXIII]

*Also, if I quarantined the fish for "x amount of time" in a seperate tank, would that not ensure diseaseless transfer?

Possible disease aside, what else is likely to happen? I don't think that Chinensis could catch a White Cloud Mountain Minnow anyways. If anything, it'll give my newts a good workout swimming after them.

 

[VolatileXIII]

Still disputing whether I should or not. What if I tried putting a few "feeder guppies" in? Worst case scenario would be that they die because of the toxins or they would get eaten. No?
If they are small enough, they wouldn't pose a threat to the newts digestive system would they? It's a 45-50 gallon tank with about 25 gallons of cycled and treated water. Would 25 gallons of water be enough to dissipate most of the toxins?

Numerous pet stores tell me I can put anything. I just laugh internally and leave without buying anything.

 

[misslyss]

I have a couple minnows in with my Chinese Warty Newts and they do fine. I also have an African Clawed Frog in there too and they couldn't be happier together. Some say you shouldn't house the two amphibians together, but mine eat, sleep, lounge around, and dig up my poor plants together. They key here is to get an ACF that is too big for the salamanders to eat, but small enough not to eat them! The catch is the ACF will eventually outgrow the salamanders and have to be housed in another aquarium, but could provide some company to your lonely salamander.

My strange duo living in Peace.

 

[Azhael]

I know you think they are doing fine but that mix is certainly dangerous.
Paramesotriton can be agressive and territorial, and can certainly do damage to or kill the frog if they choose to. The fact that it hasn´t happened yet doesn´t mean it won´t.
Additionally, Xenopus laevis is often carrier of chytrid fungus which is a serious problem.
There might be other patogens that can be transmited both to the newts and the frog (the newts are wild-caught so they could certainly be carriers of something).

The water conditions don´t look too good either. These newts are big and very aquatic, they need much more water than that. The more water the better, in fact, two adult Paramesotriton would probably need a minimum of 60l.

 

[misslyss]

Actually the two I have are mainly terrestrial. I read they can go either way from quite a few sources. The slight cloudiness in the water is due to new sand substrate. Its new and no matter how much i rinse it out it seems to have a little cloudiness to it. I guess it'll take time to settle, but its better than small pebbles and easily digestible. My salamanders' forever home has yet to be moved into the new house. Were in the middle of a move and the one they're in now is light weight. Not ideal, but maneuverable for the time being. I am on point with water changes, might I add. No dead beat herp owner over here!!

Neither of my newts have ever showed any signs of aggression, and I'd like to bring up the point that all salamanders are different in personality and preference. Yours might be aggressive but mine are not, or have yet to show signs of aggression. If anything changes I'll deal with it accordingly.

Also, the African Clawed Frog shows no signs or symptoms of illness, and is quite healthy in my care. In fact each of the amphibians have grown a special liking to trout worms, among other things, and I can confidently say they are all very healthy. I have previously done some research on that particular illness and it doesn't seem likely this frog would have it. I understand there is a possibility for trouble to arise, but there is also a possibility for them to live together in peace. I keep a close eye on these guys and so far they are all doing just fine.

One question I have for you, Azhael, how can you be so sure these salamanders are wild caught? The species is native to China and I live on the southern tip of Florida. That is one heck of a shipment. Couldn't imagine these little guys (3-4 inches long, not yet adults) surviving the journey. But hey, if they did, that just shows how hardy and amazing salamanders really are. Thanks

 

[Yahilles]

There are no captive-bred Paramesotriton sold in petshops.
Fact that your salamanders are terrestial is rather indicator of bad water quality and it's too low level - we've seen user eFan's aquarium, when he shown up his aquarium with warty newt for the first time, the newt had low water level and lots of wood sticking out, the newt was mainly terrestial and switched to aquatic lifestyle with raise of the water!
Keeping clawed frogs is very unwise choice and no one can tell you something different, especially when it's visible you lack knowledge about both species of animals you keep - it's obvious, if you keep such aquatic animals in shallow water. Happy warty newts would breed... which in your case is impossible.

 

[misslyss]

If warty newts are so likely to breed with higher water levels then why aren't more captive bred animals in the pet trade? It is rare for warty newts to breed in captivity and ignorant for you to make such accusations. When looking deeper you will find it is noted these salamanders can be either terrestrial or semi aquatic... but if you would have read my full post you would already know that is not their forever home, just a temporary home.

Also, I'm not saying mine avoid the water, they simply would rather be in their cave on the land, and it has been that way since before I added the frog and also when in a larger cage prior to my move. Thank you for your opinion, but each of my amphibians are healthy and happy. My vet will back me up on that one. I'll be posting pictures once their old home is set up in the new house for all of you who have shown such interest in my lovely salamanders!

 

[Azhael]

Well, i see you´ve taken offence by our commentaries....far from what i was hoping.
Please, i hope you realize i wasn´t trying to attack you. I was just trying to help, and prevent other members who have read your initial post from thinking it´s a good idea, because despite what you might think, experience tells us that mixing ALWAYS comes with risks and our goal is to avoid them.

I´m 100% sure your animals are wild-caught if they were bought in a pet-shop. As Yahilles says, there are simply no captive-bred Paramesotriton in the pet-shop trade, so obviously they are all wild-caught.
You are certainly spot on in saying that these animales are amazing and resistant, but the importation does take a heavy toll on them. Many die during the process and many more die at the pet-shops (most commonly they suffer severe neglect). Those who survive are usually ill, extremely stressed or starving.

As a result, many people have problems with them shortly after being purchased, from animals that remain terrestrial, to skin infections or sudden death. The forum is proof of that, you just have to do a quick search.

Paramesotriton can either be terrestrial or aquatic, you´re right, as a response to annual changes in their habitat. However, in captivity they are highly aquatic, and if excellent water conditions are provided they will very rarely, if ever at all, go out of the water. The fact that they do now is a very clear sign that water conditions are not adequate. Provide them with enough water (remember, 60l for a pair is a good volume) and a cycled tank, and you´ll see yourself that they´ll go entirely aquatic.


Anyway, i don´t want to upset you, i just wanted to help. Water volume aside, the tank looks very small. If you can´t trust us, then experience and time will show you that those conditions are not good.

 

[merk199]

Just because amphibians look healthy does not make them so. Looks can be deceiving. Have you had a PCR test for chytrid, or done fecals looking for worms/bacteria etc...

No one is trying to be critical or judgemental of your experience mixing species. But many of us have read accounts of others or even experienced our own disasters when mixing. So when someone seemingly throws out an arbitrary statement of it is ok to mix we worry that someone less experienced will take it as an absolute and run into trouble down the road. Do a search on here on mixed species tanks and then decide.

We care about our animals so that is why we get concerned when we see advice that may go contrary to others, and our experience. Your Paramesotriton are wild caught so that is even more important that you care for them as best as you can. Not to say you should be reckless with captive bred animals.

You would be surprised how many newts, sals, frogs are transported from the far reaches of the earth just so they can be sold into the pet trade.

 

[VolatileXIII]

I couldn't agree more with Azhael.

Definately a highly aquatic species. I actually gave up on anything protuding from the water. Instead, the rocks come just short of the surface so that he can lay down on the top and only have half of his body (head to tail-tip) submerged.

I'm going to avoid mixing me thinks lol.

 

[lexmiller]

I have two fairly large P. chinesis together with a small school of feeder guppies. I do think they are eating the fish as I will often see some little guppy babies, but the adult population never seems to change.

 

[VolatileXIII]

About 2 months ago, I picked up 10 feeder guppies (fatheads, I'm assuming) and used an old 10 gallon for them. I experimented at first by adding 4 to the newt tank and he was fine with them.

Since then, I've seen about 10 babies appear in the guppy tank.

Once they reach a certain size, I divide them up in cricket keepers to breed them.

I often put the mid sized ones in the newt tank, and moniter all pregnant ones so I can seclude them.

So far I've had no problems.

 

[lexmiller]

As for the aquatic versus terrestrial for the Paramesotriton...

I own two in a 55 gallon long tank. One is exclusively aquatic while the other inhabits the shallows under a log. The water covers about half of his body most of the time. Now would this just be his preference since the other newt is aquatic, or is the water not good enough for this particular newt? I have never seen either newt climb up on logs or rocks that are totatlly out of the water.