Paramesotriton eggs laying plants

[eljorgo]

In your experience what were the best plant species to Paramesotriton lay eggs?
I have plenty of Vallisneria gigantea outdoors that i could use. What others can i use as well?

thanks,

 

[Azhael]

The plant of choice varies greatly depending on individual females. One trick is to provide a varierty of plants and see which ones they prefer....another is to simply use plastic strips.
Anyway, in my experience (not with Paramesotriton) my animals prefer broad, flexible leaves, such as those in java fern. They particularly love the leaves of young java ferns.

 

[eljorgo]

Nice. Thanks on the tip Rodrigo:happy:. I do have many Java fern attached to rocks in other aquariums. Tomorrow I will put them in the aquarium with some Vallisneria and Cryptocoryne as well.
I putted already in their setup other fern called Bolbitis heudelotii. Hope its nice for them too. Plastic strips are ugly things not natural looking inside of a setup .
Cheers,

p.s. There is anything to add by Paramesotriton breeders? Cheers, Thanks.

 

[Greewok]

Elodea for sure, works great for everything.

 

[eljorgo]

Well I don't share the same opinion?.. I had experience at least with Triturus and Cynops, they didn't like not even a bit to lay eggs there. Only a few not even 10 white other plants I don't own any more had some dozens..

 

[Ben Krysa]

My Paramesotriton lays eggs in between cryptocoryne leaves and totally avoids the elodia.

 

[Joost]

In my experience with Cynops, they layed their eggs on Elodea, till they were moved to an other tank, full of Java moss. Now it's layed there. With Triturus they layed on Cabomba, due lack of other plants. Cabomba fully layed, was removed, and replaced with Elodea, this is also used.
I think they will lay eggs on every plant that's available, unless they can choose. They will get rid of their eggs anyway. If their favourite plants are not available, they will lay it on an other plant

 

[Azhael]

I agree, plastic strips are a dreadful unnatural thing...but they are by far the most practical egg laying substrate.

None of my animals touch the elodea. Eggs are invariably laid on java fern with the odd one on juava moss.

Although i agree that females will use whatever is available, in my experience a lack of suitable egg laying places can cause the female to retain the eggs or to lay less frequently. Thus, providing the right plants is important.

 

[eljorgo]

Yes I think you´re right we must provide the plants that their like the most. My T.dobrogicus used just the java moss only because it was the only plant. Also used the Ceratophyllum demersum because I provided just a single shoot of them. But they hated it has I was hoping because of their leaves almost no existential:dizzy:

Thanks Ben for the Cryptocoryne tip!! Was it wendtii?

Thanks all your kind and helpful replies,

 

[Ben Krysa]

I'm quite certain it is Cryptocoryne.wendtii in my tanks. Good Guess! She seems to prefer laying on the longer leaves, climbing all over the plant until she finds a nice set of leaves to use. She then makes a "sandwich" with two leaves and uses her hind legs to squeeze the egg inbetween the leaves.

Also in that tank I have Elodea, Anubias, Java moss and Pothos. Of all the plants she had layed on the Cryptocorynes most, then the root systems of the pothos and a little in the Java moss. She has never laid eggs on any other plants, rocks or driftwood.

 

[eljorgo]

Nice to know. I guess that if she likes to lay in cryptocorynes then she will certainly like to lay in vallisnerias and aquatic ferns because they are wide leaves. I am lucky because I do have many cryptocorynes... My biggest plant gives many shots and those shots are very big by the time so I will just use a few of them. Well anyway I am just being ambiguous because I don't know really if she is going to lay eggs or not
I even don't know witch species they are
Anyway that you very much for your time.
Cheers,

 

[Ben Krysa]

I'm not 100% certain what species of Paramesotriton mine are either. I think Hongkongensis. I have 1 female and 1 unknown. My female started laying after a big water change and an increse in water level. The eggs are not fertile. But it has been interesting to see her lay them. I'm hoping in the spring my other newt will show it's gender. It seems to me this whole species is somewhat of a mess to I.D.

 

[eljorgo]

Yes... Indeed. Paramesotriton genus is such a big mess. I guess they have given many species status that shouldn´t be given. Like P. Chinensis that is supposed to be hongkongensis subspecies.

 

[Azhael]

Nowadays i think they don´t do such things...at least not often. If you take a look at the taxonomy we have for most Salamandridae these days, it makes perfect sense for the most part.
Just because the species in the Paramesotriton genus are on ocassion very difficult to distinguish with morphological characteristics, it doesn´t mean their phyllogeny is flawed.

 

[eljorgo]

I didn´t mentioned that Salamandridae taxonomy was bad or disorganized, because I think its amazingly done! The problem resides only in paramesotriton, and I guess you can´t say that its just because they are difficult to distinguish. Because you have dozens of species that are undescribed and unnamed those, yes needed names and info on localities. I keep receiving emails\PM\posts that my animals are guanxiensis and I keep
receiving emails\PM\posts that my animals are Deloustali.... So what? Of course they need some work.... field and taxonomy work... and its not few...
Well the other taxonomy inside of Salamandridae seem proper... even that way I disagree in one point inside Triturus but that's a detail to don't mention...
Chip.

Thanks:happy:

 

[Azhael]

I´m fully aware that the Paramesotriton genus needs a lot of work. What i meant was that the species that are described, are very well described. It´s true, though, that there may be a few species(and subspecies) yet to be described and that not all animals that appear in the trade are part of the current species.
Hopefully in the following years we´ll see a new and revised taxonomy for asiatic newts. There are some flaws that need mending (particularly with Cynops), and new species that need to be described.

Uh, now you have to say which part of the Salamandridae taxonomy you don´t agree with! I´m curious and i love discussing taxonomy xDDD

 

[eljorgo]

Well.. Now we are two. I love a lot to talk about taxonomy and scientific nomenclature.
But well, its a great off-topic to this maybe you can send me your email.


Back to topic, I just added 8 vallisnerias. Big ones with big flat leaves. They seem happy haggin on there, hopefully female will lay

 

[Joost]

A lot of people are shouting names. Unless the locality is'nt known, it's very hard to describe Paramesotriton. (also With Cynops indeed, particularly cyanurus).

 

[eljorgo]

Yeah Joost, although the Cynops in general aren't as difficult as Paramesotriton
Also a Tip: after I added the vallisnerias the female started to be around them and climb them many times.. Also her cloaca shape have changed to a more big and flat shape. Also this was the first time the Female ate more than one worm. Being 3 the total number. Look slightly plump.:happy:

 

[Azhael]

Sounds like eggs are on the way.
She will sniff potential egg laying leaves and choose the ones that appeal the most to her. It shouldn´t be long until she starts laying.