Question: P. Waltl morph: obese or sick??

[firedreams]

Hi all,

I have been raising a P. Waltl larva since August, and am concerned that there is something wrong with him. Specifically, his abdomen is extremely distended (he looks as though he swallowed a grape).

Some background information: This particular larva was always on the fat side. He came from a batch of 12 eggs, and ate all of his siblings. While he has always looked chubby, as he's approached morphing over the last 6 weeks or so, he has appeared to gain even more weight. I stopped feeding him approximately 1 month ago in the hopes that he would lose the weight (originally he was self feeding on white worms, so its certainly possibly that he over-indulged quite a bit). Rather than loosing weight, he appears as fat as ever, and perhaps fatter. Now that he has pretty much completed morphing, I am becoming increasingly concerned that this isn't just a matter of a fat newt, but that there's something more going on here.

For the record, he is able to submerge without difficulty, there is no swelling to his limbs or face, and he has a healthy appetite. However, he does roll a bit from side to side when he swims.

Any suggestions? I have attached some pictures.

 

[jasper408]

The skin lightening around the stomach is a worrying factor(stretching of the skin with what looks clear fluid), and even more so the fact that you did not feed for a month, yet he continued to grow fatter. I have a female that is gravid and eats crazily as well, but the stomach looks very different from that individual.

 

[firedreams]

Any idea what is causing this or what course of action I should take?

 

[jasper408]

If it is bloat, then the prognosis is not good. It progressed slowly, so it is most probably not a bacterial infection of sorts. The article below gives a rundown on bloat.

Caudata Culture Articles: Bloat

From doing a quick search on the forums, it appears P. waltl is particularily susceptible to bloat. There are various threads regarding this particular species and bloat that consisted of fluids and/or air. http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...-salamander-help/62620-obese-ribbed-newt.html This thread seems to be very similar.

 

[firedreams]

Thanks for the article. If he has slow acting bloat, is there any medical treatment that can be done? I do have access to silver sulfadiazine - would that help?

 

[jasper408]

Isn't silver sulfadiazine a topical antibiotic only? It doesn't seem to be effective against systemic infections, which would be the case if that was the cause of the bloat. The article also recommends against over-the-counter antibiotics due to factors such as the side-effects to the kidneys and incorrect dosing. Your best bet would be to visit a vet, who could properly diagnose the cause- it may not be bacterial whatsoever.

 

[firedreams]

I have made an appointment with the local exotic pet vet for Monday (she's off on vacation this week). Hopefully he holds on over the weekend, and she can help him.

Assuming that his bloat is bacterial in origin, I would appreciate any suggestions for which antibiotic would be best. I would prefer to go into the appointment as educated as possible, as I'm not sure how many cases of amphibian bloat my vet has dealt with before, if any.

Thanks for the assistance everyone!!

 

[jasper408]

Fish can experience a similar if not the same disease called dropsy. There are various antibiotics used for this, and there are two I can recall being good for dropsy. Kanaplex and Metronidazole. Kanaplex is a broad-spectrum antibiotic that gets absorbed through the skin, and Metronidazole, an antibiotic that works best consumed, has shown success against protozoa and anaerobic bacteria. These two can be used in conjunction as a shotgun approach (for fish). There is little on treating newts or salamanders with bloat, so the dosing and compatibility may be very well off.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Kaysie]

Baytril is an acceptable broad-spectrum antibiotic for caudates. I don't have a copy of Amphibian Husbandry anymore, so hopefully somebody can look up the correct dosage. It can be used as a bath or injectable. I prefer baths, as injections are hard on little newts.

 

[firedreams]

Update: The little guy had his appointment today. The vet extracted 3 mL of liquid from his abdomen (taking his weight down from 11g to 9g). The liquid was clear, so the vet suggested that this could either mean kidney failure, or a common type of bacteria. Given the already hefty vet fees (I still ended up spending $250 USD), I declined cultures and lab tests. I went for the antibiotic option - he's getting an injection of Baytril every day for the next 2 weeks, as well as a 15 min salt bath every day.

I was wondering: If he does start to bloat up again, thus indicating a kidney condition - now that I have seen how to extract the liquid, and have a supply of syringes from the vet, could I just continue to extract the liquid myself? Would that control his kidney condition, or would he just be doomed to die in any event?

 

[jasper408]

The problem is that while the discomfort can be lessened, the underlying condition is still there and untreatable. There is no telling how much longer she may live if there is kidney problem, unfortunately.

 

[firedreams]

Thanks, I fear that you are right. I consulted with my vet and she confirmed that while extracting the liquid may be effective as a palliative care method, it will not solve the issue in the long run.

Hopefully the antibiotics will work. The little guy does seem in better spirits today, but I can only imagine that losing 1/4 of one's body weight in a single session might do that.

I feel so bad because I can see that he is trying so hard. He still has his appetite and he's just so young. I try to console myself by thinking that I am doing everything that I can and if it doesn't work, then its just his time. As short as that may be.

 

[firedreams]

After 10 days of antibiotics, our little guy is actually looking much better. His weight is down from what it was immediately following the liquid extraction, and he now weighs in at 8g. Here's a picture from today:

 

[firedreams]

I just administered the final salt bath and Baytril injection. There is no sign of bloat, and most (if not all) of the residual liquid from the bloat appears to have left his system. He weighed in today at 7.8g, so altogether he has lost 4.2 grams of liquid during his 2 weeks of treatment! As you can see in the picture that I posted a couple days ago, he's looking so much better now!

Thanks so much to everyone who commented on this post and urged me to seek out veterinary assistance. Jasper408 and Kaysie, you helped save my little newt's life! Thank you!

For anyone else out there with a bloated newt, please seek out veterinary assistance! Daily salt baths and a daily 0.01cc injection of Baytril in the abdomen (for a newt the size of mine) was the cure. Even if your vet doesn't do herps, he/she may be willing to prescribe Baytril to you. Its worth it to call and ask!

Finally, if anyone in Toronto is looking for a herp vet, I would definitely recommend the Animal Hospital of High Park!