Olms

[Jawdoss]

Are Olms able to be kept as pets?
IF so, where can i get them from and how do i go about getting olms?

Olm

 

[Jennewt]

Not really. They are threatened/endangered and relatively difficult to keep in captivity. It's like wanting a panda bear - we have to content ourselves with stuffed animals. I wish I could get a stuffed-animal olm!

Also, I believe that you cannot legally obtain any salamander in Australia, except axolotls.

 

[pondweed]

I'd love a cuddly black Olm. They're gorgeous animals.

I'm hoping to visit Slovenia in the future some time (we know someone who owns a chocolate shop there, and the buildings are beautiful, and I love caves, anyway.) Maybe there's a way I could get to see some Olms.

But I can't imagine having one as a pet. They're such specialised creatures. Can I ask why you'd want one?

There's a documentary - Weird Creatures with Nick Baker - on Youtube about them. Someone mentioned the Axolotl one on this forum the other day. He also did a documentary about Hellbenders.

 

[Jawdoss]

But I can't imagine having one as a pet. They're such specialised creatures. Can I ask why you'd want one?

They are just so facilitating and i just want to have olm as a pet. They are so fascinating, and they are like axolotls (sort of…)

Basically I just want many different types of Axies (Im looking for a black one and a wild type) I just want to have many different types in my collection.

 

[Jennewt]

pondweed - I've seen live olms at Postojna cave in Slovenia. Go there if you can!

 

[pondweed]

Postojna, got it! I don't expect this trip will be on the cards for a good few years (I have friends I want to visit in the States first! I wonder what herping opportunities there are in Minnesota!) unless I can convince Dad that we need to go to the chocolate shop… He'd need a different sort of leverage to go than dragons and amphibians. Nick Baker's got a photo of a chocolate olm in his photo gallery on his website though!

@Jawdoss - Since Olms are unattainable legally (and ethically?) as pets, it's a lucky thing there are a lot of different coloured axolotls, and variety within each colour morph. Greenish wild types, coppers, freckly leucistics… And if you're really fortunate, into the hobby, and have the resources, chimeras...

 

[FrogEyes]

There seem to be about seven species of olm. There are existing names for many of them, but I'm not sure any of them can actually be used. I don't know if anyone is actually working on revising the genus. Many localities are protected or secret. Recent experiences with other troglodyte salamanders will likely lead to more captive success with these curious creatures.

Minnesota has plenty of herping, with about 51 confirmed species. The state is large - you could probably drive from southern MN, through Iowa and Missouri to Arkansas, in about the same time as driving corner to corner within the state. There is a three or four way split in distributions: the northeastern chunk, especially just south of Lake Superior, has most of the frogs and all but one of the salamanders. The tiny southeast corner has most of the snakes, all of the turtles, two of the three confirmed lizards, many of the frogs, and small populations of several salamanders. The western edge, especially a tiny spot in the extreme SW corner, has most of the leftovers, basically prairie species not found anywhere else in the state. The Twin Cities area is well-located for accessing most wild herps, and has at least two good zoos and a specialty reptile store, plus the state herpetological society. I was herping [with no luck] just north of Iowa yesterday and the day before, but I did find five species near here October 30 - November 1. As of today, there's snow on the ground, so Blanding's turtles and mudpuppies are likely the only things to be found until spring.

There are a number of zoos. The Twin Cities has the Minnesota Zoo and Como Zoo, both of which have interesting herp collections. Como Zoo is free, but parking can be a challenge. Reptile and Amphibian Discovery [RAD] Zoo in Owatonna has a large collection of herps and is privately owned and professionally run. There are also zoos in Rochester [Zollner Zoo], Mankato [a petting zoo in a public park I think], a possible new private zoo in Bemidji [the developers have a variety of herd stock], and an aquarium in Duluth. One of these days I may actually get some of my hundreds of photos online from native species and RAD, MN, and Como zoos.

 

[KrisztianNemeth]

Sirens are a group of american salamanders that look very similar to olms and are in my opinion more attractive! They can be easily obtained too but I'm not sure about Australia. Also why are there so many distinctive different populations that are each most likely a separate species but no work has been done to describe them?

 

[FrogEyes]

I cannot say that "no work" is being done to describe them - only that I don't know for sure if anyone IS. Obviously, some work has been done, or it would not have been discovered that there is significant isolation between populations. Part of the puzzle will be reviewing the old names to determine whether any of them must be used - that is, the oldest properly described name must be used, but the names applied to olms may not have been described in accordance with the rules. These are 'laurentii', 'zoissii', 'schreibersii', 'freyeri', 'carrarae', 'haidingeri', 'xanthostictus', and of course parkelj. Many of these names were proposed for populations which are now thought to be separate species.

Nor is it a given that the populations are "distinctive", at least from a morphological perspective. Speciation results primarily from reproductive isolation, which means that differences between species accumulate after separation and more or less by chance. That's why so many near-identical species have been discovered with genetic sampling. Genetic changes accumulate automatically, but most such changes don't affect visible appearance. As they are purely aquatic and mainly subterranean, olms have a long history of isolation. At some point in the distant past, their ancestors had to have lived in a waterway which ate into the karst and offered subterranean opportunities. With erosion, climate change, etc., the original waterway disappeared and was divided among various new drainage routes. This isolated the salamanders into cave systems which mostly no longer connected. With no reproductive exchange, each population accumulated mutations which could not be shared with the others. With time, each thus became distinct from the others. Ironically, the black olms are simply a surface population of one of the troglodyte species, the physical differences being a product more of environment than genetics.

http://web.bf.uni-lj.si/bi/zoologija/peter_trontelj/PDFs/Gene-Proteus-06.pdf‎

http://dpc.uba.uva.nl/cgi/t/text/get-pdf?c=ctz;idno=8202a04‎
Darren Naish: Tetrapod Zoology: When salamanders invaded the Dinaric Karst: convergence, history, and reinvention of the troglobitic olm

 

[Kaysie]

They are just so facilitating and i just want to have olm as a pet. They are so fascinating, and they are like axolotls (sort of…)

They're only vaguely superficially like axolotls. That's like saying you really like bats, so you're going to get a parrot. They both have wings, right?

If you want axolotls, stick with axolotls. Unfortunately in Australia, you're stuck with axolotls.

 

[pondweed]

Thank you for the information, FrogEyes. I copied it to my friend in Minnesota, so maybe we can go searching - or at least visit one of the zoos! - when I see her.