Newts limbs

[mark]

Hello, I currently do not own this newt anymore, but what would you suggest for it???

 

[john]

If those blurry white things are bones, then there a couple of things to do. Newts can regenerate the limbs, but it takes a while. How did he loose the limbs? Is the newt still eating?
Is there other newts in the tank? There is a solution you can get to rub on the wounds. Here is one, silvadine cream (silver sulphadine) but you will need a prescription for it. Keep asking questions, I'm sure someone will know of another cream or solution to help out.
(Message edited by Nuggular on December 09, 2004)

(Message edited by Nuggular on December 09, 2004)

 

[mark]

I am not sure how he lost his limbs, I think it started with his toes, and then started to deteriarate. He was still eating when he could get to the bottom of the tank. There was other newts in the tank.

 

[john]

I see. So now the hurt newt is alone? Did the other newt bite at him or anything. As long as he can be at piece alone in a shallow habitat, that should be ok for him. You need to get that solution and start treating the wounds.

 

[benjamin]

Is the blurry white stuff fungus or bone?

 

[mark]

Yeah, this was a long while back, and has since passed away, and the blurry white stuff was bone with fungus. What kind of medication would you have used?

 

[andrew read]

hello mark,
the best over the counter treatment for this kind of infection is probably "fish fungus" distributed by thomas laboratories, tolleson, AZ.
it may surprise you to know that many of these limb degeneration type illnesses are caused by bacteria and fungi which originate in contaminated food and spread to the limb extremities and bones in the blood stream; they are often not caused by external injury nor external infection at all.
The additional use of antibiotic such as erythromycin solution dropped directly onto the wound may speed up recovery, particularly if the bone is infected, but it's best not to use erythromycin in the whole tank as a permanent bath.
i wish you the best should you have this problem again.
andrew read

 

[jesper]

Hi Andrew,
If it is a systemic infection as you suggest, shouldn't the drug be administered orally or parenterally and not locally? What's the point of treating a systemic infection locally?

Very interesting that that these bacteria can originate in the food, I thought these pathogens were opportunistic.
So makrolides work well with newts and sals?
Most vets otherwise seem to use flouroquinolones for example enrofloxacin(Baytril) as a general broad spectrum antibiotic.

 

[andrew read]

hello again,
the 'fish fungus' bath is a treatment intended to control systemic infections but may not penetrate bone well enough to prevent growth of bacteria there, and may therefore fail on its own. erythromycin will penetrate bone, particularly if applied locally in small droplets of concentrated solution. bone infections are usually gram positive, and baytril is unreliable against gram positive organisms. baytril used alone will also encourage the growth of fungal superinfections. mark has said that there are fungi present. i agree with you that systemic infections are best treated parenterally, but injecting such small animals is often impractical and prohibitively expensive. destroying a serious systemic infection in one go, particularly a fungal infection in a newt, often results in shock and death, and it is probably better to try to kill the infection slowly with a bath where you can monitor the animal for any signs of shock. one danger of the treatment i suggested above is the risk of gram negative superinfections, but this risk can be reduced by the addition of phenoxyethanol and formaldehyde to the bath.
i should add that i'm not a vet, and the above is intended as information only, and not as advice on treatment of any particular animal.
best wishes to you.
andrew

 

[brian]

I have a newt with this condition, and it seems to slowly be getting worse. There is no fuzz, but a slow deterioration of a toe, and now part of a foot.

Andrew you said to do a "Fish Fungus" bath treatment, how much of this per gallon or liter.


I don't have access to anything but the fish fungus. Is there anything else that could be used?

I have the newt in a tank with lots of gravel and plants, so I was going to either put him in an empty 29 gallon by himself or just bath him in a little 1 gallon tank I have.

How often should they get bathed?

He still eats very well and is fully aquatic.


Thanks

 

[mark]

Ya, send us the info.

 

[andrew read]

Hello Brian,
If you can't see any mould growing then the problem may be bacterial or protozoan and not fungal. It will probably be important to find an antibiotic active against these organisms. If you can't find erythromycin liquid then you could try 'fish mycin' also distributed by thomas labs. One 'fish mycin' 250mg tablet can be used to make 25 litres of bath. You can obtain formaldehyde from any tropical fish pet store or failing that then from any pharmacy as a stock solution of 30%-40%; the normal dose is 20 parts of the stock solution per million (in other words 4 drops stock solution per 10 litres bath (one drop being one twentieth of a ml)). The dosage of the 'fish fungus' can be prepared by grinding up one tablet into powder in a mortar; taking out a one-quarter-teaspoon measuring spoon you could add ten of one-quarter-teaspoons of table salt to the powder and then mix them thoroughly together; this will then give you a mixture of salt and 'fish fungus' with each one-quarter-teaspoon measure providing one tenth of the 'fish fungus' tablet. One tablet normally treats 200 litres at a dose rate of 1 part per million, however a dosage of 4ppm is normally safe and more effective. So, one one-quarter-teaspoon of the mixture could be used to treat 5 litres of bath.
You could divide up the 'fish mycin' tablet with salt in a similar way to the 'fish fungus' tablet, except that one tenth of the tablet would treat 2.5 litres bath.
Your final bath mixture would therefore contain 'fish mycin', 'fish fungus', salt and formaldehyde, and water of course.
I think it is best to treat the animal in a small sterilised plastic container. Disinfect the container with a small amount of the formaldehyde stock solution wiped over all its inside surfaces with a small sponge; rinse it out thoroughly with tap water. Don't touch the animal with your hands without disinfecting your hands first because you could transfer disease organisms onto it. The best disinfectant to use I think is povidone iodine (eg betadine) which can be obtained from any pet shop or pharmacy. Scrub your hands thoroughly with the povidone iodine. Rinse your hands thoroughly before touching any sick animal, but don't dry your hands on a towel because you could pick up germs again from the towel.
Start by using only a small amount of the bath, say one tenth of the volume of the animal, and pool it around the wound when the animal has calmed down and stopped moving around. Observe the animal every 15 minutes for any signs of shock such as failing to respond to stimuli. If there are no signs of shock then add another volume of bath, and so on until the volume of bath is 5 times the volume of the animal.
Change the bath at least once a day. Every time the bath is changed go through the plastic container disinfection procedure with the formaldehyde.
If there is no sign of improvement within 2 days then another antibiotic may be necessary such as a tetracycline or enrofloxacin.
It is likely that the infection will be causing damage under the skin faster than it appears on the surface. An antibiotic may in fact be working yet the damage appears to be getting worse because the actual damage had already been done before the antibiotic was used. Deciding whether an antibiotic is working or not is therefore often very difficult, and it is often easier to amputate the limb well above the apparent site of infection to be on the safe side.
You need to bear in mind that both the 'fish mycin' and 'fish fungus' are mainly anti-gram-posive-bacterials, and there is therefore a danger of gram-negative superinfection, particularly if you don't amputate the leg and remove all the dead tissue.
For the time being I would take great care of the food that you use, and if the animal will take frozen 'gamma irradiated' food available from tropical fish shops then you can at least be sure that it will not be contaminated with any pathogenic organisms. You can get many different varieties such as mussel which may be attractive to your newt.
The above information is intended as general information only and not as advice on how to treat your particular animal.
Andrew

 

[brian]

I put my newt in a short Salt bath, as the wound seemed to be getting fuzzy. I then put a small amount of neosporin (no pain relief) on the wound. Then returned him to the tank, I ordered the stuff that Andrew described, but by the time it came, he was already well on his way to healing.

Usually just the opposite happens, but he has 3 toes and the wound is healed over, and looks like a toe is beginning to grow back. He had a great appetite so I was lucky.

Thanks for all the advice!