Newt Plant Ratio Data

[samuel]

Hi guys, it's been a long time. i only recognize a few here, the old timers

.

Just upgraded my tank for my 2 orientalis and i'm curious to know if anyone has any data on proper plant to newt ratio.

Cheers!

 

[pamela]

How 'bout they like lots of plants!

 

[alan]

The more plants the better!

 

[samuel]

yeah, so do i.

but because the tank is a closed system, too many plants may mean that the rate of ammonia being produced by the newts may not be sufficient to meet the rate of nitrate absorption by the plants. and the plants may die

. So anyone has any views on this?

cheers!
sam

 

[edward]

Hi Sam,
Just being a little nickpicking, if you are adding, food, water or performing water changes, this is not a closed system.
Plants actually prefer to absorb ammonia over nitrate as it is more easily metabolized.
With plants it is more often insufficient iron, carbon dioxide or light that causes premature death of the plants than a lack of ammonia.
I have kept and grown plants in tanks with no fish and no newts without any additional sources of ammonia as long as I performed the water changes regularly to replace absorbed ions.

Ed

 

[pamela]

That's good info Ed. Thanks!

 

[samuel]

Haha, ah yes it's not a closed system. so actually all those nitrogen fixing bacteria in the tank that converts NH3 to NO3 are actually not neccessary so long as u have enough plants?

Also, is the rate of CO2 produced by 2 adult c. orientalis enough to sustain the rate of CO2 absorption by 1 anubias nana (medium), 1 windelov's java fern (small), 1 bunch of elodea (medium), 1 bunch of cabomba (medium), a few stragly strands of christmas moss and 1 bunch of a type of polysperma (medium). I live in a tropical country so the metabolism of the newts shd be higher plus i feed them every other day.

Hee, sorry for the bombardment of questions.

SAM

 

[edward]

In planted aquaria, the plants compete with the bacteria for the absorbtion of ammonia, but there will always be some (to alot) bacteria in any aerobic aquatic system that converts ammonia to nitrous acid to nitric acid.

Unless you add enough animals to deplete the oxygen, then I doubt your newts will produce enough CO2. Most of a plant's CO2 uptake is via atmospheric CO2 not what is respired by the animals. If you had enough animals in the enclosure to supply all of the plant's CO2 requirements, you would run a risk of suffocation once the lights went out as the plants would then also begin to respire CO2.

Ed

 

[samuel]

Hi Ed,

So do u think the rate at which the newts contribute CO2 to the water, can it keep up with the uptake of CO2 from the water by the plants? Do u guys have real figures for such data?

And also, could u point me to the source where u got the info that plants prefer ammonia to nitrates? it's the first time i've come across such info.

Thanx!

Sam

 

[edward]

Hi Sam,
Uptake of CO2 is light, temperature and species dependent but in general yes the newts will not supply sufficient CO2 for the plants as the majority of CO2 in water comes from diffusion from the atmosphere and decomposition of organic matter (mainly high carbon sources such as plant matter as opposed to nitrogen rich sources such as protiens).

Here is a link that discusses the basics of the ammonia vs nitrate http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration.htm but if you really want to learn about planted aquariums I recommend Ecology of the Planted Aquarium (see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967377315/qid=1109084044/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-7035234-7488847

as it goes into depth about the ammonia nitrogen cycle, which bacteria perform the work, as well as other factors such as CO2 requirements.

Ed

 

[samuel]

Hi Ed,

thanx a million!

Sam

 

[samuel]

Hey Ed,

Yeah, it's just what i needed, quantified data. Thanx man. By the way, u know any good caresheets for Trionyx sinensis? Can't seem to find any as informative on them as caudata are on caudates.

Sam

 

[edward]

Hi Sam,
Most places I know keep them the same as Apalone but then I'm not much of fan for keeping large chelonians so I never paid too much attention to them (I have enough to keep my eye on and try to keep up with). I'll ask around at work
Did you contact the guys at the Asian Turtle Alliance like Wayne Hill and ask them?

Ed

 

[edward]

10' is still a large chelonian in my book. I prefer spotted turtles, padlopers, Pyxis, and Kleinmin's tortoises.

Ed

 

[edward]

Hi Mike,
If you ever get up to Philly, I'll introduce you to North America's largest collection of Dermatemys (we also have a large fly river turtle). We are supposed to be getting a 50 lb (22 kg) plus alligator snapper (and we used have to full sized Florida softshells).

Ed

 

[edward]

We currently have 2.1. G. muhlenbergii I think we have only had a couple of clutches laid and they were not fertile. I think we are not cooling them down enough...

We have bred the dermatemys several times and currently have eggs from Chelodini parkeri, Pyxis planicauda and FOrstein's tortoise in the incubator.

Ed

 

[samuel]

Thanx for the help guys i'll look up the info Mike, thanx!

Sam