newt hybrid?

[geganewt]

will eastern newt subspecies hybredtize with each other? i've read they are very closely related and they are of the same specie so they shouldn't have a different chromosome count,so why not?
i'm asking this because i want to try hybredtizing the central newt with the broken-stripe newt

 

[Kaysie]

Why would you want to hybridize them? The point of captive breeding is to make pure bloodlines, not muddle them.

 

[geganewt]

the reason i'd want to is simple, to see what would happen, if it would have hybrid vigor, if it would have different color, if it would be nicer; knowledge for knowledge's sake, for i am an inquisitive person. that is why i would want to hybridize them

 

[J21Kickster]

"i've read they are very closely related and they are of the same specie so they shouldn't have a different chromosome count,"

If an animal is the same species as another animal then hybridization does not occur... and of course the newts would have the same chromosome count, that number does not change. The newts you are describing are different species in the genus Notophthalmus. Hybridization is more selective breeding than anything, but you need to take in consideration (deeply) why a species breeds within it's particular species: classification as separate species or as subspecies, depends on why they do not interbreed. If the two groups do not interbreed because of something intrinsic to their genetic make-up (perhaps green frogs do not attract black frogs, or breeding occurs at different times of year) then they are different species. If the two groups were to interbreed freely, provided only that some external barrier was removed (perhaps there is a waterfall too high for frogs to scale, the populations are far distant from one another) then they are subspecies. Just a little insight on why to keep lineages purer, especially for the endangered animals.

 

[Jennewt]

If an animal is the same species as another animal then hybridization does not occur... and of course the newts would have the same chromosome count, that number does not change.

There certainly can be hybridization between two animals of the same species. You say so yourself below (when you describe hybridization as "selective breeding").

The newts you are describing are different species in the genus Notophthalmus.

No, central and broken-striped newts are indeed the same species. Technically speaking, they are not even subspecies, just two localities of the same species.

Hybridization is more selective breeding than anything, but you need to take in consideration (deeply) why a species breeds within it's particular species: classification as separate species or as subspecies, depends on why they do not interbreed.

I wouldn't describe hybridization as selective breeding. I believe that Geganewt is using the term correctly - he basically wants to cross two strains of the same species.

If the two groups do not interbreed because of something intrinsic to their genetic make-up (perhaps green frogs do not attract black frogs, or breeding occurs at different times of year) then they are different species.

OK.

If the two groups were to interbreed freely, provided only that some external barrier was removed (perhaps there is a waterfall too high for frogs to scale, the populations are far distant from one another) then they are subspecies. Just a little insight on why to keep lineages purer, especially for the endangered animals.

That isn't really the definition of subspecies.

Josie- I don't mean to give you a hard time, but I felt I needed to correct some misinformation in your post.

Geganewt - broken striped newts are a VERY precious commodity in this hobby! There are very few in captivity, and very few people have been able to breed them. I strongly encourage you (beg you even?) to keep them separate from the central newts. Please!

 

[geganewt]

what i was going to do was make all eggs hybrids, but i now have a better idea, and that is to get a pair of central newts, and a pair broken-stripe newts, and let them do there own thing, and at least some of newts will be pure bred broken-stripe. and sense you said it was a "VERY precious commodity" i'm guessing i'm going have trouble finding them captive bred, and i'll have to find them wild-caught

 

[Azhael]

What Jen is telling you is to please avoid interbreeding them....
It is extremely important to keep the quality of every amphibian bloodline. As you know amphibians in the whole world are becoming rarer and lots of species are disappearing or becoming seriously threatened. One of the last hopes for some species are the captive animals. If you interbreed them, you just threw away a little bit of the species...
If you succeed and then sell or giveaway the offspring (not to talk if you ever set any individual free), they will probably be mixed with the original bloodlines , creating a new bloodline with NO genetic value. The offspring would just be a contaminated new bloodline, menacing the integrity of the original captive bloodlines.
The axolotls are a great example for this....some animals were mixed with tiger salamanders, this spread by breeding and now a big part of the captive bred animals are contaminated hybrids with no value whatsoever for the original species.

 

[Jennewt]

If you keep the adults together, you might not be able to identify which offspring are the hybrids and which aren't. In a way, that is even WORSE than a situation where you know that all of the offspring are hybrids.

Gega, if you really are able to breed the broken stripes, you could do such a wonderful thing for the hobby by sharing the eggs or offspring with others. Mixing them does much less good for this world.

 

[IAMSTEVE]

There Is alot Of Decision Making Through Out this Thread, For The Scientifical Imagination, It'd Be a very cool Thing to do.

In the existance and Importance to Life on earth and Not Killing off a species, aswell as not Troting on they're Bloodlines. I'd Say Interbreeding them: Not Cool.

But I can't Choose For you.

Bon Chance,
Steve

 

[Lasher]

As an ex-dartfrog keeper(where interbreeding in mixed tanks can be a real problem) I'd have to agree.
Its my belief that as a keeper we have a responsibility to maintain the animals we hold in a natural state. Amphibian populatons the world over in the wild are declining, we have an obligation to maintain those species for the future not to pollute the genetics of a species.

I dont disagree it may be interesting, but if you do it please be carefull to keep them seperate from any other captive or wild 'pure' populations.

 

[geganewt]

ok, i won't interbreed them, though i will try to breed them if i could get them, but i don't know where to get them so i can't

 

[J21Kickster]

Isn't a subspecies generally defined as being geographically distinct and form populations that differ (to some degree) from other geographic populations of the species? I understand what you mean though Jen. When I was talking about selective breeding and hybrids I was pointing out that the cross-breeding that geganewt wants to perform is aimed at achieving a particular objective or goal (the selective part). Hybridization is interbreeding between two animals of different taxa, but hybrids between different species within the same genus are known as interspecific hybrids and hybrids between different sub-species within the species are known as intraspecific hybrids.