New Tank, second axie and mistakes! ):

[Roogan]

I fear I've made the ultimate of mistakes by taking bad advice. I'm new to this forum, I had my first axie Bruce for three years and recently decided I wanted a second (he's called Darth) - preferably in a new, bigger tank rather than a second smaller one. I saught advice from my local aquatic shop, from a young lady who kept them herself so I presumed the advice received would be top notch. Since reading the threads on here, I'm panicking.

I now have a 60L tank, its long and low so plenty of floor space. I was informed this would be sufficient for the two 7" axies, is this correct? They've been in it three days now, it sure looks ok for them, and they haven't bickered amongst themselves. The tank floor is bare of substrate, as the large gravel in my old tank caused nothing but problems. They have three hides to share, an ornamental aquarium rock with some fake plants too. The sales assisstant told me if I swap all my ornaments from the old tank, a large portion of Bruce's water and all of the water that Darth came in, and then top up with dechlorinated tap water, they would be fine. I asked her opinion on taking some water test strips home and she politely told me not to waste my money - now I'm more educated on the ammonia cycle I'm freaking out that I have NO way of monitoring the quality. In my old tank, I hadn't a clue what this process was about and I kept Bruce happy by doing 25%-50% water changes every other day... Now I think it's a darn miracle he's lived this long. I'm very aware I've made a lot of uneducated mistakes by treating him as I would a goldfish, but now I want to take these two seriously and do the best for them. I can't take them out of this potentially hazardous water now, I've nowhere safer for them, how can I check and stabilise it quickly and safely??

Aside from these water issues, I have a pump problem. I initially bought a Rena 40l for my old tank, but it turned out it caused far more problems as it was too strong and invariable, causing current and stress. I took it out and opted for water changes as I couldn't afford anything more. Now, in this bigger tank I was strongly assured that this smaller filter would be much more suited, it wouldn't be too strong now. I think it is. I'm not certain what the key factors are when explaining a filter strength, but it's a 40L one with a whopping 300l/hr turnover, SURELY this will be too much?! Im currently torn between the benefit it provides and the stress it will cause, I don't know whether to have it on or not.

Please, if anyone has any advice on what to do about the tank cycling and advise on a more suitable filter, without slapping my wrist too much on these errors (I didn't know better) then it is welcomed!! Thanks.

 

[Quentari]

Is your filter submersible? I have a powerful filter and managed to stop the flow by putting a heavy ornamental rock in front of the output part. Other people have used those meshy shower sponge things (forgot the name of them) and used them to disrupt the flow.

Some of the API liquid tests would probably be your best bet. The strips are okay short-term to make sure things don't get scary but the liquid tests are WAY more accurate. If you're worried about price I'd check ebay, they're pretty cheap on there, or at least start off with the ammonia liquid test and the strips for the others. Ammonia is the most toxic of the three and the starting point of the cycle, so you at least need to get that pretty accurate.

On another note most pet stores will test your water for you if you bring some in for them, could be good to do while you wait for your liquid tests to arrive?

 

[Roogan]

Ahhh that shower mesh idea is a good one I never would of thought of! The filter is submersible, but only to a relatively shallow depth so the spongy idea would be brilliant. I'm gonna pop back to the shop today and grab some test basics, what are ideal numbers to see / dangerous ones?? Thanks!

 

[Quentari]

If your tank is cycled you'll see:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20-40

If it isn't cycled fully you won't want your ammonia above .50 (MAX), your nitrite above .50 and your nitrate shouldn't go above 40. If you are doing a fishless cycle it doesn't really matter how high they get until it's time for mr. lotl to go in.

 

[layna]

Hey okay, i know it not much use but try not to panic.
I got my FULL liquid test kit "api freshwater liquid test kit" from ebay for £20 and its lasted me around 7 months so far so its well worth the investment.
As your going to be doing a cycle with the lottles in then id say around 20-30% every other day, unless your ammonia is dangerously high.
For your filter, you should get one to cover your volumes of water in the tank so a 100L tank wont hold 100L (ornaments and not full to the top ect) but it will turnover enough water to keep your tank clean, i would invest in a sponge filter alongside the one you have running, theyre also really cheap (£2) off ebay!
Once youve bought the test kit and sponge filter then just continue your every other day water changes and it should work its self out
Oh and they say that you need a 3 foot tank for two adult axies to live comfortably so id consider looking around for a cheap second hand tank, i found my two for £10 each, whoop

 

[Roogan]

Ok so I've made some improvements! Firstly, I've attached a small piece of spongy stuff to the filter output, this seems to have done the trick for massively reducing the flow and my pair seem much happier! Secondly, I bought an ammonia test kit and I've observed the levels before and after a water change. Before, I'd say I wasnt quite at .50. An approx 40% water change later and it's dropped to below .25.

While I'm cycling the tank with my axies in, are these safe enough variation levels? Im aware taking the levels of ammonia TOO low will stall the cycling by starving the bacteria of their food source, is this correct?

And lastly, because I have a bare bottomed tank, I have less area for the bacteria to grow so I'm taking the advice and purchasing a sponge filter at the weekend. Any suggestions on which are suitable for this size tank? I'm now reluctant to take the advice of my local store, and who would know better than you guys. Thanks in adv.

 

[Quentari]

It should say on the box which size is suitable for your tank, but seeing as the air flow is just bubbles I'd buy the biggest one you can afford/have space for.

You are correct about the starving, but I don't know for sure what the safe levels of variation are. Someone with more experience might be able to help you there.

 

[layna]

Well im not an expert either, however ive read on the forum a lot that people say not to let it go above 0.25 and i think that usually a 20% change every other day would keep it at a safer level, but thats a generalisation
Depending on your axies waste and tank size ect haha.
And as you have a filter already running in your tank, id find a sponge filter that has a good surface area but it doesnt need to be MASSIVE, just a little extra for your 'good bacteria'
Anyway...hope i helped!

 

[Roogan]

An update!
Today I bought the biggest sponge filter I could put in, without taking too much space away from the axies comfortably. It's running a treat (I'm not so keen on the cheap noisy pump but it'll do for now!) And it's running alongside my little filter. I'm hoping this will speed things up a little. Ammonia readings are still below .25 on the days I'm not doing water changes. On the days I change, it usually reads a little below .50. I'm guessing it's going to take forever to get my cycle kicked off, but I've got hold of some Nitrite tester to keep an eye on when those levels start to rise too.

My question to anyone who's cycled with axies IN the tank is, will prolonged exposure to these sorts of conditions prove harmful, or will they come out unscathed (and happier once it's all done!)? I'm not so worried about my old guy cuz he's tough as old boots, but I've no idea how hardy my newest addition is.


And as a side note, my old one Bruce is a leucistic (sp?) And my new one Darth is a wild type. Am I ridiculous in thinking Darth is a lot more "snappy", is this a behavioral trait of the wild types? I hand feed earthworms and he frightens me to death every time with his lunges hahaha he's always the first one up, fearless!

 

[Roogan]

Also, I should add my readings are quite vague as the API test I have seems pretty hard to differentiate. The colours are closer together and the grading is 0, .25, .50, 1.0 etc and it often falls betwen the two colour bands. My Tetra kit is worse! ):

 

[Alkylhalide]

Ive cycled a 100L tank and once you get everything you need to test all your values i would be curious to see them. I had my tank up and running for two weeks before i started the cycling process. On that day i added my axies, the sponge filter i had running in another(already cycled tank), all the ornaments from my old tank. And i tested my water and already had a nitrate level of 10pppm, we guess it was caused by the fact that i did have duckweed in the tank prior, and the decay causes ammonia levels, although low.

Just because you did add ornaments and such from another tank that may have been cycled id like to see where your tank is at the far end of the cycle. My tank cycled in 4weeks with my axies in it. I never let my ammonia go over .5 but sometimes it got up to 1ppm in which id do a bigger water change. Nitrite i wouldnt let it go over 1 or 2ppm ever and nitrate over 40ppm. Anything over these levels will cause ill effects if not rectified.. But low levels i dont think cause any long term bad effects on their health. My two older ones lived through a. Off the chart nitrite levels for maybe 3days when i first was trying to understand cycling, i thought my tank was cycled but three days later i noticed a huge spike in nitrite, i took my lotls out as soon as i found out but they showed no ill effects with 5+ppm of nitrite. Which could of killed them. We all make mistakes expecially with cycling tanks.. Its so confusing and unpredictable.
Once you start getting nitrate values you are on the right track. Watch for spikes and handle them accordingly, you want it low enough to not hurt your lotls but high enough that you are not starving the bacteria.

 

[snuggly time]

I've read that wild types can be more aggressive. A trick for the air pump on your sponge filter is to sit it on a sponge so it's less noisy. I have 2 tank in my bedroom and I probably would have lost the plot if it wasn't for a cheap sponge lol. Also if you haven't got one, a non return valve is very useful too. It stops the water running into your air pump and very cheap. Non Return Valve For Pond Airpump Line or Aquaium Pump Airline: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

Have you got any pics of the tank and lotls? :happy:

 

[Roogan]

I'm not sure if I've uploaded this right, I'm using my phone and this is the only photo of the pair it'd let me access. They're a pair of posers Darths gills still look shoddy because I'm assuming they were nibbled on when he shared his tank with others in the pet shop, but he's making lots of healing progress

The sponge idea sounds brilliant! That's definately getting a trial. Thanks!

 

[Roogan]

I have no idea what's going on with my water. I'm hoping some of you seasoned pro's can give me a hint.

Ok so for the first week I was doing mostly daily water changes (sometimes 2days if the levels weren't bad.) Ammonia wasn't allowed above .5, nitrites were <.3 and I didn't test for nitrate as I'm cycling and expected to see none at all for some time yet.

Over the past four days, my ammonia did not rise above .25... I was confused, I'm waiting for a small rise to change the water and none came. I kept an eye out for a nitrite spike, but none came. My two axies have been eating well, behaving normally and having their poops turkey-bastered away asap as usual. So this morning, I test my water and I get a <.25 ammonia, and a .3 nitrite reading, hoooraaay I think, finally getting somewhere on the slippery cycling slope. I rushed to the shop and got myself a nitrate kit, which read at between 10-20ppm.

Before I danced with joy and did a mini water change to lower the nitrite, I luckily thought ahead and did a base reading of the tap water I use ): the nitrate reads between 10-20ppm ): THAT'S where it's from.



Ok, so my questions. Why is my ammonia neither rising nor falling? Is my increase in nitrite a good, positive sign or am I wishful thinking? And if my tap water reads 10-20ppm nitrate, will this A) harm my cycling before it starts or B) affect later water changes when I am finally cycled?? How can I expect to lower the levels in my tank when I'm changing with tap water like this. Any advice MUCH appreciated!!