Illness/Sickness: Neurological Fire Sal?

[AllHailRain]

I've had a fire salamander for about a year now. He's always been on the thin side, but I let him eat to his heart's content. To be honest, I feed him about once a week, and he only ever wants 3 crickets. Last time I fed him, he starting wobbling back and forth and seemed off balance. Today, he missed the cricket every time I put it in front of his face. The only time he actually bit down on it, he then let go. I used to feed earthworms, but have switched to dusted crickets over the past few months.
I've been a vet tech at an animal hospital for two years now, the doctors I work for work on reptiles and exotics, but we never see amphibians simply because no one brings them to the clinic. Anyway, I read the Herpetology medicine textbooks at work, and they seem to point in a neurological direction.
Does anyone have an opinion or better knowledge for this particular problem?


Basics..about 6 inches long, somewhat thin (though never been fat), male, temps are high 60's Fahrenheit (thermometer broke, this is an educated guess from when his thermometer worked and nothing's changed.) he's got 5 inches of substrate, and spends all of his time underground.

Thank you so much guys!

 

[Mark]

Can I ask why you switched from worms to crickets? Even dusted crickets won't match the nutritional reliability of earthworms. Ideally the diet should always be varied, even if that only means swapping between 2-3 different prey items. I personally would always include worms.

As the animal has never bulked up it might be worth checking a fecal sample for parasites (your vets may be able to offer this, even with little knowledge of exotics). The underlying nutritional problems could be the cause of the deterioration but may also be unrelated. It could just as well be a genetic problem.

If it were mine I would hospitalise it in a clinical set-up of damp paper towels and a simple hide and feed it regular meals of chopped earthworms, slugs and waxworm. Towels will rule out any problems with it's enclosure and also make a fecal sample easier to find.

 

[herpvet]

I've had a fire salamander for about a year now. He's always been on the thin side, but I let him eat to his heart's content. To be honest, I feed him about once a week, and he only ever wants 3 crickets. Last time I fed him, he starting wobbling back and forth and seemed off balance. Today, he missed the cricket every time I put it in front of his face. The only time he actually bit down on it, he then let go. I used to feed earthworms, but have switched to dusted crickets over the past few months.
I've been a vet tech at an animal hospital for two years now, the doctors I work for work on reptiles and exotics, but we never see amphibians simply because no one brings them to the clinic. Anyway, I read the Herpetology medicine textbooks at work, and they seem to point in a neurological direction.
Does anyone have an opinion or better knowledge for this particular problem?


Basics..about 6 inches long, somewhat thin (though never been fat), male, temps are high 60's Fahrenheit (thermometer broke, this is an educated guess from when his thermometer worked and nothing's changed.) he's got 5 inches of substrate, and spends all of his time underground.

Thank you so much guys!

Hello,

I would certainly go with Mark's suggestion of getting a faeces sample checked for parasites, and probably putting in a more clinical setup for closer observation.

Unfortunately investigating CNS (central nervous system) disease can be difficult in any species, let alone herps, but there are certainly options. If he's big enough you could get a blood sample to try to rule out metabolic causes (liver or kidney problems) and/or infectious issues (WBC/differential). Radiographs or ultrasound could also look for any potential internal coelomic problems as well as possible metabolic bone disease complex issues.

Failing useful results from that, if he is really showing CNS signs, it's often just a case of trying treatments against possible causes.

Hope you can get him sorted out.

Best wishes,

Bruce.

 

[AllHailRain]

Well, with my new work schedule, I can never get to the local bait shop on time for earthworms. Mom uses pesticides in garden, and I've asked around friends with yards, but everyone uses pesticides for their flower gardens etc. So, I've been doing dusted crickets for a little while. Waxworms are definitely easy to get at a petshop though, so I will get those today.
I did look up dewormers in the exotics book, and I found Fentanyl, which is safe for amphibs and I could get at a feed store easily. Dewormers can't hurt if they're the right dose, so I might try that out.
I talked to the doctor at my work; He told me he'd do surgery, anything necessary, but that I needed to do all of my own research for it. So I thought here would be a good place to start if anyone else has had similar issues. You guys have a lot more sallys than I do, so any common problems you would know more about.
No MBD, his joints look great. I've seen a lot of that at my work.
I know they sell earthworms at walmart...but ew. that just screams bad idea. Ideally, I just need to find a new bait shop. But, today I will start with waxworms. I doubt the hard exoskeleton in mealworms would be good for sallys..I just need an easier worm to find.

I've seen him out two days in a row now, which is uncharacteristic to my underground dweller. Trying to figure out if that's a good or bad sign. I guess we'll see tonight if he can catch his food.
Thank you so much for your help!
I was planning on changing out the tank dirt anyway, so he'll be moved into a hosp. set up tonight as well.

 

[herpvet]

...
I did look up dewormers in the exotics book, and I found Fentanyl, which is safe for amphibs and I could get at a feed store easily. Dewormers can't hurt if they're the right dose, so I might try that out.
I talked to the doctor at my work; He told me he'd do surgery, anything necessary, but that I needed to do all of my own research for it. So I thought here would be a good place to start if anyone else has had similar issues. You guys have a lot more sallys than I do, so any common problems you would know more about.
...

Hello,

You might want to check that - fentanyl is a (very powerful) opioid analgesic. As far as I'm aware it doesn't have any deworming effect, and even if it did I'd be very wary of using it when there are several relatively safe alternatives available.

I would be interested in any reference you have that fentanyl is in fact an antiparasitic.

Hope this helps,

Bruce.

 

[frequenc]

Hello,

You might want to check that - fentanyl is a (very powerful) opioid analgesic. As far as I'm aware it doesn't have any deworming effect, and even if it did I'd be very wary of using it when there are several relatively safe alternatives available.

I would be interested in any reference you have that fentanyl is in fact an antiparasitic.

Hope this helps,

Bruce.

Fentanyl is indeed a very powerful analgesic. I know this is a relatively old thread however I hope that AllHailRain meant to say Fenbendazole which is a commonly used antiparasitic. Hopefully you did not use Fentanyl in an attempt to deworm.

I would be interested to hear an update on this particular case.

Cheers,
Alex