Neotenic Mesotriton alpestris apuanus

[drdetroit33]

I'm looking for information on any connection between water depth and neoteny in Alpine newts.I bred well over 100 newts in shallow water in tubs and all but 1 fully morphed.I also kept 6 in with the parents in an 20 gallon aquarium of which none have morphed and all retained full gills.Has anyone else experienced this ? I also think that perhaps it could influenced by the oxygen content in the water.Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Azhael]

It´s always been said that deep, cold waters promote neoteny, although genetics sure have a lot of weight on it.

 

[pezzatos]

Neoteny is not always a thing caused by cold waters or deep basins; in a little pond near Florence - Italy, there's a pond i know (400-500m on sea level) where M.a. apuanus (introduced long time ago by a friend) are most of all neotenic; theyr very high tail's crests give them almost the semblance of fishes!
The center of the pond is less than 2 m deep, the pond is very sunny and the water is very hot in summer.
I also know that the original population that they came from, between Florence and Bologna, have not any neotenic subject in the original places.

 

[Alejandro]

I have a group of seven M.a.a. and two of them (females) have not lost their gills. They are kept in a 20 gallon long aquarium filled almost to the top with well oxygenated water with the aid of a sponge filter. There are Egeria densa, Echinodorus sp. and Microsorum pteropus attached to drift wood plus some Java moss. The temperature of the water is 70.4 F (21 C). They eagerly feed on blackworms and Daphnia pulex.

 

[LeV]

Neoteny is not always a thing caused by cold waters or deep basins; in a little pond in Italy, there's a pond i know (400-500m on sea level) where M.a. apuanus (introduced long time ago by a friend) are most of all neotenic; theyr very high tail's crests give them almost the semblance of fishes!
The center of the pond is less than 2 m deep, the pond is very sunny and the water is very hot in summer.
I also know that the original population that they came from in Italy have no neotenic subjects in the original places.

Hi everybody !

Pezzatos, would you have some pics of these neotenic individuals to post here so that we could see how they are looking ? I've personnaly never seen such animals !
I presume they are entering in hibernation in the water depth at this time..

 

[pezzatos]

Here they are! :

http://jb4cuw.bay.livefilestore.com...gl0_QYuxTjMU_0TXuEYonrnRSdt51mMA/DSC00854.JPG

http://jb4cuw.bay.livefilestore.com...fRJksAAbtBTUzuWRr1eW3p74yupWITxw/DSC00909.JPG

http://jb4cuw.bay.livefilestore.com...herazeJHQbvxbxM3H8U1agVusOZ4mA4g/DSC00912.JPG

And a neotenic lissotriton vulgaris from the same pond! :

http://jb4cuw.bay.livefilestore.com...jVgHmO9mu8htIq5njFj-hmJPXVQ9xS_w/DSC00861.JPG

 

[John]

More like "there they are".

 

[Azhael]

That´s an awfully well glass delimited pond xDD
Beautiful animals though.
As i said, genetics are by far the most important factor, but environment appears to have its effect too...
I.a.apuanus has a great predisposition to neoteny, greater than other subspecies, which is probably due to environmental pressure favouring the trait in the subspecies.

After all, everyting except us depends ultimately on environmental pressure.

 

[End]

Nice neotenic M.a.apuanus
This summer i discovered a little pond in the middle of a children park in my city, very close to the beach, i can't believe what i saw: this little hot and dirty pond was the habitat of many neotenic Mesotriton alpestris apuanus. I dont know how they can survive there, the water is dirty , full of plastic bag coca cola and beer bottle , the water was so hot almost 30 celsius.
I would return to visit the pond to see how they are going and make some better pics.

 

[pezzatos]

Hi again!
Well John and Azhael, it's evidently an enclosure in the photo, and not the pond of what I was talking about.
I took these photos while me and my ecology group were doing an exposition of Italian reptiles and amphibians. That's to make people learn how to recognise every single, wonderful species that they could see in our territory.
In these occasions we have the permission to make people see these animals, but only in the exposition time; after that, we bring back every animal to the place where it was captured; even if the pond of what I was talking about is not naturally populated by M.a.apuanus in origin.