My New Tank setup for CBFNs

[AmbhiMan]

Dear Friends,

I want to build an aquaterrarium for my CBFNs with natural land and aquatic plants. Before building it, I plan to experiment with a smaller setup 32 x 16 x 16 inches whichI am currently putting together and posting photos.

The points I want to check on before I build the large tank ( 48 x 21 x 21 ) are as below :
- cooling and temperature stability ( normal room temperatures are 28-32 degress C here hence need to see how well this works )
- condensation on tank sides, how to deal with it. Insulating the sides is an option but blocks the view
- experiment with the rock structures - stability,provide hiding spaces without trapping the newts, ease of cleaing etc
- filtration possibilities
- thermostat control of the pump circulating water thru the chiller so that it operates in sync with chiller
- lighting arrangements

Posting the first set of photos after I set up the tank and chiller. The pipe connections are temporary and will be using fixed pipes for the final setup. The pump is currently put inside the tank but I intend to house it in the small plastic container that you see in the last picture. The plan is draw the water from the tank into this container at one end of the tank and then the pump will push the water thru the chiller. The output from chiller containing the chilled water will open in the tank at the other end.

Looking forward to your comments / advice.

Regards,

 

[DeCypher]

Looks like some Firebellies will be very happy!

Looks fantastic.

 

[RobM]

Seeing as I have been spreading posts all around the forum lately, I shall give your post a try too! Please understand I am not an expert on some of the things you have asked, however please appreciate the time it has taken me to reply

I think you are going to have a lot of difficulty keeping temperatures low enough, C.orientalis tend to like temperatures of 20 degrees Celsius and below! That is a good 10 degrees (and more) lower than your room temperature.

I do not think you are going to be able to find a suitable solution to the condensation problem. Condensation occurs when moist air meets surfaces and air which is lower in temperature, this is going to be unavoidable if the inside and outside of the aquarium are different. Condensation is also your friend when you are trying to cool an aquarium, it helps to reduce the temperature of the water.
One option I do not know whether you have considered is air conditioning, it would not only help reduce your aquarium temperature, but it would also reduce your condensation, because aquarium and room temperature will be more equal. However like other solutions you may consider, you have to think about what you would do if you loose electricity for a period of time?
Caudata Culture has good information on cooling methods: Caudata Culture Articles - Cooling (However I still think you will have difficulty maintaining a constant acceptable temperature)

I shall not go into too much detail about the other areas you asked about, because I think you should first address the temperature problem (I think it is your biggest problem)

Caudata Culture has good information about filter options: Caudata Culture Articles - Filters

Some people would consider the decoration and content of your aquarium as the fun part, a good way to get inspiration is to look at other setups, again I am going to link you to Caudata Culture, which contains articles with some good examples of setups: Caudata Culture Articles. If you have any questions resulting from what you read, let us know

I don't own or have never used a chiller, so I cannot be certain, but do they not normally have thermostats built in?
Have you been monitoring the aquarium water temperature? what has the average temperature been? what has the maximum and minimum temperature been?
C.orientalis do not like fast moving water, how much turbulence does the chiller produce?

Lighting could largely depend on how much light the room you keep the aquarium in gets and the plants you keep.

 

[Viv]

Have you got them already or have you not got them yet? If you havn't got them yet then I would suggest C. enscuida. They can take higher temps. and in my opinion they look better.

 

[AmbhiMan]

@ Psychopathic963 - thanks

@ Viv - I already have 4 CFBNs and am also raising some of their larvae too. I have posted some photos here. http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...cynops-orientalis-eggs-sudden-appearance.html I would love to get the other species too but cannot help it as newts are not common in petshops here.

@ Rob - Appreciate your reply. Answers to some of your questions are

- Max water temp has been 27 degrees C and min is 20 degress C. While now due to winter, the water temperature has been 22-24 degrees. I have been maintaining the temperature at around 22-23 degress C by putting ice bottles in the tank. The tank is covered on sides and bottom with polystyrene foam.
- There is no airconditioning in the room.
- The chiller does have a thermostat control and once I set a particular temp, it maintains the same perfectly. The Chiller does not cause any turbulence but I need to use a pump to circulate water thru it and that is what causes turbulence. I am thinking of drawing and returning the water thru foam filters. Will check it out in the next few days.
- I have gone thru all the articles in CC articles section and found them to be very useful.

Will update more pics as the work progresses further.

Regards,

 

[RobM]

@ Rob - Appreciate your reply. Answers to some of your questions are

- Max water temp has been 27 degrees C and min is 20 degress C. While now due to winter, the water temperature has been 22-24 degrees. I have been maintaining the temperature at around 22-23 degress C by putting ice bottles in the tank. The tank is covered on sides and bottom with polystyrene foam.
- There is no airconditioning in the room.
- The chiller does have a thermostat control and once I set a particular temp, it maintains the same perfectly. The Chiller does not cause any turbulence but I need to use a pump to circulate water thru it and that is what causes turbulence. I am thinking of drawing and returning the water thru foam filters. Will check it out in the next few days.
- I have gone thru all the articles in CC articles section and found them to be very useful.

Will update more pics as the work progresses further.

Regards,

You really need to maintain a lower average temperature to keep the newts healthy.
Alex's advice of C. enscuida is a good one, they can handle temperatures up to 30, whereas C.orientalis may suffer from 23 and above. Seeing as you have C.orientalis I am guessing that wont be an option though, but answer me this, if you are on the verge of their maximum temperature in winter, how are you going to maintain a good temperature in the winter?

 

[AmbhiMan]

You really need to maintain a lower average temperature to keep the newts healthy.
Alex's advice of C. enscuida is a good one, they can handle temperatures up to 30, whereas C.orientalis may suffer from 23 and above. Seeing as you have C.orientalis I am guessing that wont be an option though, but answer me this, if you are on the verge of their maximum temperature in winter, how are you going to maintain a good temperature in the winter?

Hi Rob,

You seem to have missed the chiller which I have bought for the purpose of cooling the temperature. Further I need to share with you that I have been keeping these newts at 24 degrees C average temperature since last august and they do not seem to be stressed at these temperatures. In fact they have also growed in size since I got them home and have also layed eggs. I have read on this forum and also elsewhere that C.orientalis needs to be kept cool around 20 degrees C max but I do have my newts living comfortably at 24 degrees C. As I have kept them only for past 5 months or so, not sure if there are any ill effects in the long term but outwardly none that I have been able to make out so far.

Anyways I do plan to finally house them in a tank with the temperature maintained around 20-22 degrees C Max. Will update you as the work progresses.

Thanks for your interest.

Regards,

 

[Tudor]

Dear AmbhiMAn,
Rob and Alex already give you good advices and I'm sure you read the topics and care sheet about H. orientalis from this forum and caudata culture.
You must keep in mind some details:
First of all, H. orientalis don't like water currents, so, you must avoid such a think by using sponge filter powering by an air pump;
Second, a better choice is an air conditioning device and not a chiller. A chiller make noise and must be powered by a water pump and you will have to much movement in the mass of the water from your tank. Keep in mind that H. orientalis is a pond type newt.
I will recommend you to find a way to keep your newts in a room with lower temperature (possibly a basement ?).
I keep all my newts in a room without windows and an air conditioning device that lower the room temperature till 18 Celsius. In this case, the temperature in my tanks are 18.5-19 Celsius. In the case of the newts that necessitates much higher temperature, I prefer to use some in tank heater with thermostat.
If you want to keep the chiller, I strongly recommend you to use a spreed bar (a 15 inch pipe with many little holes) positioned just at the surface of the water, in the back of the tank, in order to diminish the water flow. Also you may put a long piece of foam in the front of the spreed bar making the water current much lower.
Good luck with your new tank, and if you need other advices please ask :happy:

 

[AmbhiMan]

Dear AmbhiMAn,
Good luck with your new tank, and if you need other advices please ask :happy:

Thanks, Tudor.

I live in an apartment so there is no basement available to me. Also currently there is no airconditoning in the house and also I have already bought a chiller. I will use the chiller and use sponge filter to dampen the flows in the tanks.

Regards

 

[WilliamBlake]

Why willing to keep these animals while obviously you can't afford them a good place to be ?
My advise would be not to keep your orientalis and buy frogs instead for example. Cynops and most caudates do well at 18-20 degree, your "normal room temp" is 28-32. All things said.

All year round a chiller will cause you condensation problems and water turbulence which is bad too.
And one summer day you'll have 38 degree in the room and you'll have had an electricity break and all your cynops will be dead.

I wish i had a horse but i took a cat because i don't have no big garden. I don't have a dog neither because my house is quite small. I wouldnt take caudates if my room temp was that high.

 

[FRANCOIS]

Thanks, Tudor.

I live in an apartment so there is no basement available to me. Also currently there is no airconditoning in the house and also I have already bought a chiller. I will use the chiller and use sponge filter to dampen the flows in the tanks.

Regards

Just an idea, why not buy a used Air Conditioning window unit and place it for the room where your tank will be?

 

[AmbhiMan]

Hey Friends,

Sorry, could not update the thread for past several months !!!

Am posting a photo of the tank. Added a few rocks and some plants. Am still experimenting with the plants and setup. I want to keep the tank bare bottomed as this will help in keeping it clean and also ensure that the bloodworms and tubifex worms which I feed the newts get eaten up.

What I intend to do is to create a floating tray raft or tray platform which is either anchored to the back of the tank or stands on legs in the tank. The tray platform would be built with plastic wiremesh and plastic tubing frame. I will use gravel in the tray to plant the emergent plants. Hope these will able to remove some of the organic wastes generated by the newts.

This tray would be removable from the tank for cleaning and maintenance purposes.

Currently have Dracenas,Commelina plants in the tank.

Cheers

 

[Darkan]

Looks like a nice tank. Just wanted to say, if your animals aren't stressed and you are taking care of them (which it sounds like to me) good for you! Keep up the good research and care and enjoy your pets. Don't be swayed by their negativity. Cheers!

 

[evut]

Considering that these newts spend their adult lives in water, it would be better if you put more water in the tank. Land areas are pretty much wasted on these newts and bigger volume of water will offer them more stability in terms of chemistry and temperature.
The tank also looks very bare and not much fun for newts. You should add some hiding places etc.
Lastly - do you have a lid on the tank? It is an absolute must, even if your newts don't seem to climb at the moment.

 

[Azhael]

Darktan, i wouldn´t call the good advice from more experienced keepers and breeders, negativity.
I´m aware AmbhiMan is trying hard with his animals and that the conditions in his country are really very unsuitable for these animals. However, there is plenty of room for improvement in that tank, like Eva has pointed out, for example. In addition i would add A LOT more plants, specially in the surface. The tank is way too bare and it´s an enormous waste of volume. A few little things could improve it significantly, with very little effort.
I feel that your words were, although i suposse, not intentionally, very bad advice. AmbhiMan, like the rest of us, came here to learn and take advantage of the experience of others, and you are telling him to ignore any advice if it doesn´t fit his whim.

 

[Darkan]

Darktan, i wouldn´t call the good advice from more experienced keepers and breeders, negativity.
I´m aware AmbhiMan is trying hard with his animals and that the conditions in his country are really very unsuitable for these animals. However, there is plenty of room for improvement in that tank, like Eva has pointed out, for example. In addition i would add A LOT more plants, specially in the surface. The tank is way too bare and it´s an enormous waste of volume. A few little things could improve it significantly, with very little effort.
I feel that your words were, although i suposse, not intentionally, very bad advice. AmbhiMan, like the rest of us, came here to learn and take advantage of the experience of others, and you are telling him to ignore any advice if it doesn´t fit his whim.

Perhaps negativity was the wrong word to use. I only meant that it seems like on this thread (and a bunch of others I have read) there are a lot of more experienced keepers just telling new people that they should not keep the species they have chosen or phrasing their helpful suggestions as a criticism. As one of the newer people, this isn't very helpful. I am here trying to learn and not get judged for mistakes or other ideas I have had.

Now that being said, I am a new person and don't know as much as the more experienced people here. I certainly didn't mean for Amphibman to ignore everyone else or to just do what he wants at the expense of his animals' health and well being.

Sorry for the thread hijacking, I just wanted to explain. Thanks to all that are willing to share their experiences with newbies! :happy: