My experience with fish cohabiting a newt tank

[chc36]

So I know I'll probably catch some flack for it but I decided to take a gamble a little bit ago and try a community tank with chinese fire bellies.

So first some background, I'm a college student in the dorms so my pet options are severely limited. I started a 10 gallon tank with a lyretail molly, a farowalla catfish, and a few guppies. Unfortunately during the cycling process I lost my farowalla but that was all, which isn't to bad for a first cycle. I then added a black swordtail and a sunburst platy, and sold the guppies (they were grown up fry that I had from before).

I then decided that I wanted to spice things up a bit (lets face it, fish are boring). After doing tons of research on proper care and treatment on newts and fish compatibility and seeing it could be done I decided to pull the trigger. I got 2 chinese fire bellies from my local pet store (very reputable and all newts were in great condition). These newts were named Marco and Polo.

After a month or so Marco was the definition of a healthy newt, unfortunately Polo was not the same. Despite my best efforts he remained extremely hydrophobic (even when placed in a new tank away from fish for a week). He only ate when I wasn't watching but not a lot. his hydrophobia got the best of him though and he managed to escape through an uncovered open (stupid on my part) and we lost him and it was a very sad day.

Despite my failure with Polo, I decided Marco needed a new friend, so I went out and got a new fire belly, this group was new, also in great condition but these had extremely bright, almost red coloring on their stomachs. I changed Marco's name to Merrian and named the new one Pippin (after the LOTR characters). Pippin is one of the happiest newts I've ever seen. I added a gold dojo loach to the tank and the tank is now a bright, happy, active aquarium. Polo is a little chubby after eating a lot of extra freeze dried blood worms, and both he and Pippin are almost entirely aquatic.

So the moral here is it can be done, and it can be done successfully with just a little luck and careful care.

 

[evut]

Sorry but this doesn't prove anything. Newts are generally not "happy" when there are fish around. By buying pet shop Cynops orientalis you are supporting a terrible trade in wild caught animals, in which the newts suffer a great deal. The more you buy the more they'll catch again (and that's loads more than will actually turn up in shops due to high mortality during transport etc.)
I don't think you can say they are in great condition - your hydrophobic newt was probably sick and stressed. Also, you don't mention any quarantine - if you just buy more animals and put them straight in with your old ones you are asking for trouble.

Out of curiosity, what temperature is your tank?

Sorry I don't meant to have a go at you, just pointing out some things which you are maybe unaware of.

 

[freves]

Surviving and thriving are not the same. The livebearers that you have would probably benefit from the addition of some salt. In addition the live bearers may be to survive the temperatures required by the newts, 60's to low 70's max F, however they would be better off in the mid 70's to low 80's. The lyretail mollie really requires a larger tank. As Evut asked you did not mention what the temperature in your tank is either. Just for the record I am not against mixing newts and fish. I think that there are many possibilities out there however you are going to need a bigger tank and do some more research. Most of the fish available at typical mom and pop type stores as well as at Petsmart, Petco, etc. are poor candidates. Your goal should be "what is the best enclosure that I can create for my newts?" with consideration for fish secondary. Just some random thoughts.
Chip

 

[Shizeric]

The classic rule is 1" of fish per gallon of water. Ignoring substrate and decorations let's say you have 10 gallons of water.

Lyretail mollies grow to 4", Black swordtails grow to 4", Sunburst platys grow to 3", and the loach is 4-6". You have 15" of fish, AND 2 newts.

The animals also all require different temperature ranges. This is a prime example of how NOT to care for newts or fish.

 

[chc36]

Like I said, knew I'd catch flack. Whether you believe it or not, everyone is healthy and happy, I make sure my fish and newts have what they need and are treated appropriately. And like I said, where I buy my newts is not a typical LFS, if I understand them correctly they don't recieve "shipments" of fish and animals, all the pets they sell are locally bred and raised. No puppy farms, no brutal newt transport, etc. I understood what I was getting into and decided to give some awesome animals a place to live, and THEY ARE HAPPY. You may not agree, but in my situation it worked, thats all I'm saying

 

[freves]

Well good enough then. Update us every 6 months or so. I am always curious about the long term stability of overcrowded tanks.

 

[Yahilles]

and THEY ARE HAPPY.

Have they told you so?

So the moral here is it can be done, and it can be done successfully with just a little luck and careful care.

Of course, your months-long experience beats years-long experience of many specialists or longtime breeders from this forum. Nobody said newts die right after you put them with fish but sooner or later you will see problems. You think we all advice keeping newts separately without a reason?

 

[froggy]

There is a reason that one of the major threats to newts in the wild is the introduction of fish...

C

 

[Shizeric]

I make sure my fish and newts have what they need and are treated appropriately.

How can you say that when the animals require COMPLETELY different temperature ranges?

 

[Azhael]

Aside from the stress caused by the importation, it´s very likely that the terrestrial newt refused to go aquatic because of the fish. As Chris says, most caudates actively inhabit fishless waters. Even in nature, fish and newts tend to avoid mixing with each other.
There are certain species which can be succesfully kept with H.orientalis (as long as it´s a small number of fish, and there´s lots of space and cover), but all the ones you´ve chosen, except guppies, are very inadequate tankmates.
It´s simply impossible to offer good conditions for both those fish and the newts at the same time, because of the issue that has already been mentioned, temperature.
The fact that all those animals are in a 10 gallon tank is rather disturbing....

You say your experience validates that this type of mixes can be succesfully done, but you lost one newt, and the ones you have are not fully aquatic, plus it sounds like this has been going on for a very short time. I´m sorry, but that doesn´t constitute success.
Also, even if the pet-shop you buy them from has a good reputation and works with CB animals, i assure you that those H.orientalis are extremely unlikely to be CB. This species is not easy to raise (although it´s easy to breed) and it takes up to three years and A LOT of patience to get CB offspring to grow to maturity. If your newts are adult, then i´d say there´s a 99.9999% ( give or take xDD) they are WC.


Please note that we are not saying all this because we are mean and don´t like people to mix. We do it because there is LOADS of experience on mixing in this forum, and the consensus is that most combinations work very badly. If you kept your newts alone, and offered them the right conditions, they´d thrive unlike anything you´ve experienced with them yet.

 

[chc36]

Well thanks to the ones who offered polite responses, I do plan on separating them and upgrading tank size once I can afford to do such, like I said I'm in college, unemployed and living off $30 a week. I care about my animals and try to do the best with what I have. So thanks again, I should have mentioned from the start that raising them with fish wasn't my first choice.

 

[Azhael]

Have you considered a plastic container for the time being? You can find tupperware-like containers that are over 40-60l in volume, and they are pretty inexpensive. Sure, they are not very aesthetic, but they are just as good and practical as a regular aquarium. The animals certainly don´t care.
That way you could separate them asap instead of waiting for when you have enough money for a new aquarium. The sooner the better, believe me. Those poor newts have been through hell and they need the best conditions to recover from their ordeal, without them, they are at risk. Sorry if this sounds alarming, but it´s the crude reality, these newts are tough, but problems like sores, infections, emaciation, etc, are very common.

 

[Kaysie]

I should have mentioned from the start that raising them with fish wasn't my first choice.

It seems as though it was, or you wouldn't have gotten them after you already had fish in the tank.

 

[Shizeric]

I should have mentioned from the start that raising them with fish wasn't my first choice.

I then decided that I wanted to spice things up a bit (lets face it, fish are boring). After doing tons of research on proper care and treatment on newts and fish compatibility and seeing it could be done I decided to pull the trigger. I got 2 chinese fire bellies from my local pet store (very reputable and all newts were in great condition). These newts were named Marco and Polo.

Your EXACT intention was to keep them with fish.