mavortium pair

[juraj]

One photo of my little excursion from asian salamandrids world. Really toys like creatures. Captive bred in 2005.

 

[Kaysie]

My tigers are shameless beggars. They're so cute!

 

[John]

Captive bred in 2005.

Care to elaborate on that?

 

[juraj]

It`s discussed here: http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=39760&highlight=mavortium

 

[Kaysie]

Ah, the "is it REALLY captive breeding if they're held outside" fiasco.

I'm along the lines of saying yes because they're in an area that's not native.

Regardless, gorgeous tigers.

 

[John]

Juraj, that's someone else's account. What did _you_ do? I have always felt that this approach is "cheating" to some extent. Granted it produces eggs but it's not exactly captivity as most newts and salamanders experience it.

I was thinking about your oak leaves. I've observed Ambystoma mavortium mavortium in the wild here in Texas and in the region I visited there are ~no trees for hundreds of square kilometres. This doesn't stop the salamanders from breeding. This leads to me to believe that the leaves aren't necessary.

 

[juraj]

John,
I pesonally did nothing. These animals just come from the mentioned batch. I`ve always thought that this way is normal captive breeding that`s why i wrote they are CB. Even if the animals were put in a small garden pond the conditions still would be more "captive" than natural in my opinion.

 

[caudataman]

I got into a big arguement many years ago, back when people actually discussed salamanders intelligently on "kingsnake", as to whether this was really captive breeding or not. I used to be on the side of the fence that said it leaned on the cheating side, but I've softened my stance. (I'm getting old!) I've come to the conclusion that there are no "style" or "difficulty" points in caudate breeding. You either do it, or you don't. Getting any Ambystomid (outside of 'lotls) to breed is quite an accomplishment and "counts" in my book especially if it's on another continent or in an area where they aren't native. That the parents are "recovered" and the environments "attended" shows to me that they are more than just exotics introduced and then WC again. True, it would be more impressive if it were in an indoor climate controlled area, but then again I'd be even more impressed if it was done in a pint glass of Guinness (hey, it's been known to induce a breeding response in at least one species, lol). I'm not aware of many (any?) terrestrial Ambystomid breeding that didn't include some outdoor open air assistance, but, in fairness, I haven't been paying that close attention. BUT, now that it's been done, can we TRY and replicate the same conditions INDOORS?!? That'd be a challenge! Then on to the pint! (Just remember to rinse it when yer' done)

 

[caudataman]

Oh, and Juraj, they are beautiful animals indeed! Very handsome tigers, and I'm not usually a tiger fan.

 

[freves]

Brian,
Are you saying that discussing the merits of feeding Kraft cheese to a newt is not intelligent discussion??
Chip

 

[Kaysie]

Oh man, what am I missing over at kingsnake?

I'm kind of with Brian on this one. Yeah, they're outdoors, but they're still in captivity. That's like having horses, and saying they're not captive bred because they're in the pasture. Especially when it's on another continent (like Europe), where they're not native.

 

[caudataman]

Kaysie,

Back in the day - (mid to late 90's) Kingsnake's forum was THE place to discuss newts and their care. A lot of the same people here were there, Ed, John, Nate, Heather B, and many others. Unfortunately, (or perhaps fortunately indeed) it's unattended, unregulated nature lent it to be consumed by nonsense and bickering and inspired Caudata's founders to create this place of more serious dialogue. A bad day here is better than a great day there, believe me, so you're not missing much. I popped over there a couple days ago, and outside of the aforementioned Cheez-whiz questions, it's deader'n Elvis. Thanks again John and all!!!

Brian

 

[Kaysie]

Brian, I used to frequent kingsnake. But I got annoyed (as I'm sure Ed does!) correcting others' 'information', and then being berated because I called them out on bad husbandry practices.

I also find it interesting that people will post a question here, and then not like their answers, and post them on Kingsnake to see what other answers they get.

 

[John]

it's deader'n Elvis

He's not dead man.

 

[freves]

My biggest problem with any source of animal care related information, whether it be books, magazine articles, or the internet is the fact that so many people write on subjects that they have little or no personal experience with. I have seen this happen when even so called experts are the authors. Many of the books published by TFH back in the 90's are a prime example of this (IMO kingsnake is the TFH of the internet). The situation is that much worse on the internet because anyone can post at anytime - great for debates and expressing opinions but not necessarily so good for a source of good information. It is the quality of experience based, authoritative information that makes this site second to none.
Chip