Marbleds -- morphs

[TJ]

Got my first morph today

A top view of the same morph:

 

[william]

congratulations!

 

[TJ]

Thanks, William. This is my first ever experience raising marbled newt morphs, so I'm thrilled about it. I have 30-40 larvae to go. Here's another morph, different from the one shown above:

 

[joseph]

Very cool Tim! How do you plan to raise them? Also...would you mind getting a photo up against a cm ruler?

 

[TJ]

Hi Joseph. Well, the one in the first couple of pics morphed at 5 cm and the other one at 4 cm.

I plan to raise them as I'd raise a morph of about any species, keeping them on moss and soil with some cover. For food, I'll start out with baby crickets and the smallest size waxworms (I can get order really tiny ones here in Japan), and then try to get them to eat frozen bloodworm fed by hand. I raised their parents from a small size without any losses so I'm pretty sure I'll do OK with them

 

[pin-pin]

Congrats Tim!

I have to say, marms are really amazingly beautiful.

 

[TJ]

They sure are gorgeous

Mine are doing very well. They're active eaters compared with some other species I'm raising.

I seem to have three color variations here. By far the most numerous variant is the bright, fluorescent/luminescent one:

Then there is this dark variant:

And then this pale, small-spotted variant:

It may just be that it takes some time for the bright coloration to develop...

(Message edited by TJ on August 23, 2005)

 

[terry]

Hiya Tim,
Having recently obtained marbled newts, i was doubting their species. Clearly the batch I obtained must be T. marmoratus since their markings matches the pics of your morphs.

Excellent photos btw.

 

[TJ]

Hi Terry.

Actually, I've been deliberately calling mine "marbled newts" or "marbleds" and not T. marmoratus because I'm not sure about the subspecies. I can't recall if Serge confirmed that for me or not...

Their bellies are whitish, not blackish.

According to Griffiths, the belly is black with small white spots in the nominate subspecies, while this pattern in the smaller subspecies, T. m. pygmaeus, is augmented with yellow markings and larger white spots (this being taken indirectly from the AmphibiaWeb description as my Griffiths book is not with me right now).

 

[terry]

Hey there Tim,
Here is a photo of what I got. Do they look similar?

Not a very good picture but it shows them clearly enough. I took this photograph as I got them at a fair. The guy that sold them to me said they were marbled newts but could not tell me for certain if they were Pygmaeus or Marmoratus.

These are about 2 years old according to the breeder. the two on the left and middle are most certainly males as far as their stripe goes.

(Message edited by terryschild on August 23, 2005)

 

[TJ]

Nice animals, Terry!

Well, two things immediately strike me, the first being that yours are certainly more plump than mine!

...though I'm sure mine will fatten out since they've only just morphed recently.

The other thing is the dark stripe down the dorsal ridge with your males there. I'll look at my males (the parents) when I get home, but I don't recall the stripe being so dark.

What are the bellies of those marbleds of yours like?

(Message edited by TJ on August 23, 2005)

 

[TJ]

Here are the links to pictures of the adults:

From the top:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/32616.jpg

From the bottom:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/33130.jpg

 

[terry]

Tim,
I've looked at them and some of them share the same colouration as your newts but others have a definate darker belly with less white. Odd.

I was beginning to think I have been sold a mixed batch of both T. marmoratus in its nominate form and some pygaeus at the side. Or worse... a crossing? I have absolutely no idea. It could probably be just a variation in colour.

I'll upload some newer pics when i've made them.

 

[TJ]

Well, even within the same species, some degree of regional variation can be expected, as is variation among newts cohabiting a pond and even among siblings as possibly seen in the photos above (though I'm unsure they're siblings as I had 3-4 females laying at once). I just don't know enough about marbled newts to make educated guesses about them

 

[terry]

Ok here are some shots of one female from the same batch which were the same age. It is pretty obvious that it is a female T. marmoratus, or so I think. She and one other were the only more patterned and darker belly than the rest. Also, she is the largest. I guess she is more mature than the rest.

Here is another shot of her. She probably was not happy that I woke her up for a quick photo shoot.

This one compared to the others brought about the confusion as to wether mine were T. marmoratus or pygmaeus.

Cheers,
Terry

P.S. It is a pity I do not know their origin(s) I've tried speaking to them in Français and Español. Nothing works. They just gave me this cold stare and crept back under the tree bark.

(Message edited by terryschild on August 23, 2005)

 

[TJ]

I think I realize your problem, Terry, you should have tried speaking to them in Euskara, the language of the Basque people, or maybe Catalonian

They're much darker than my adults, that's for sure. They started out very bright when I got them as juvies, and then darkened, though not to the same extent as yours.

 

[terry]

Now why didn't I think of Euskara before. Did not quite like the fact that they merely just stared and offered no reply. Heck I tried Luxembourgs and esperanto.. ñiente.

Some people were hinting that some of my adults are suffering a disorder. I hope that this is not the case. Like you I intend to start a breeding pair so the colony gets bigger. I reckon I would be able to start next spring or maybe mid-winter. The idea of a winter rest sounds good for them. Who knows. Now I'll have to make belly shots for Sergé in the other part of the forum so he could offer me/us a positive identiication.

Or should I just say: Sergé, they look pretty much like Tim's from the underside. Could you tell from Tim's pictures?

(edit) Tim, one more thing: I saw the pics of the parents mating in an earlier thread you made ( thanks for the photo guide, now I know what they would look like from land to water). Someone else mentioned that they resembled T. pygmaeus though the crests are too high? Hmmm. I am beginning to scrutinize my little group with MUCH skepticism. ( If they ARE pygmaeus, then my secret desire to own T. pygmaeues would be OH so complete).

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

( chuckles with evil laughter before posting)

(Message edited by terryschild on August 23, 2005)

 

[terry]

Tim,
I posted a link of my newts underbellies. See any similarities between yours and mine?

http://www.caudata.org/forum/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=985&post=64647#POST64647

After taking those photos I will watch them to see if they will stay in the water. If they do? A little nursery is needed.

 

[sergé]

I posted a reaction in the other section.

 

[terry]

Tim, Sergé,

I guess another way to be certain is when I look at the male during its breeding colours. I'll initiate breeding conditions and snap photos of the male. Perhaps that would give a clear indication of what they are.
Sergé, upon writing I noticed that the belly of one female was completely de void of colouration. merely a hint of light orange and white spots. She is about 11 centimeters and 2 years old. Her belly resembles the picture you posted here:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=985&post=14727#POST14727
One other female is somewhat larger and she bears markings of a typical marmoratus. That is the belly of the female in the image earlier in this thread.