Looking for Robert Thorn's book on salamander

[eric]

Hey everybody
I'm looking for the following book «Les salamandres de l'ancien monde» (Salamanders from the old world) by Robert Thorn and Jean Raffaëlli.
This book (in french or in english) is supposed to be the BIBLE for newts and salamanders of Europe.
Do you know where I can buy this book on the NET?
I tried with InfiniT but no succes...
thank
Eric

 

[john]

If you can get it in English, it's news to me, and I'm sure it would be news to Jean Raffaëlli too because he never mentioned it to me when I talked to him at Gersfeld last year . It's only available in French.

You can buy the latest edition from amazon.fr - that's where I got my copy. It is the best book on old world salamanders/newts that you can get, but having said that, the primary emphasis is detailed descriptions for identification, as well as behaviour in the wild. Captive maintenance of each species rarely runs to longer than a short paragraph and in a lot of species it's absent completely. The line drawings vary greatly in quality too. Those are the only negative points to an otherwise excellent book. It's the book I reach for when I want to read about a species I'm not very familiar with.

 

[eric]

Thank you John and what an incredible fast service!
To be honest with you, I didn't know if an english version of this book was available (Robert Thorn is a english name?).
As far as I am concerned it's not a problem because I'm a french speaking person.
It seems that the title has changed from «les salamandres de l'ancien monde» to simply «les salamandres» in is new (2000) version. This fact brings confusion to me because I was looking for the exact title on Internet and there is a lot of book with the title «les salamandres».
Otherwise, I can buy this book from France or ordered the Richard A. Griffiths book «newts and salamanders of Europe» available from a local bookstore in Montreal (Canada) where I live.
Do you have a favorite ? (It's not a question of $$ they are both around 70-80CND$)
Do I need to buy both? (my interest is in the Triturus Genus before all)
If you John, or anybody else, have suggestions for me, please don't hesitate.
Best regards
Eric

 

[john]

Ok, here's how it works. "Les Salamandres", by Robert Thorn was published in 1968, in French only. Robert Thorn is French as far as I'm aware. Anyway, they republished that book in 2000 with updates to take into account species name changes, etc.

In 2001 the book was updated again and captive care information from Jean Raffaëlli was added, as well as some beautiful colour photos (by Henk Wallays, Max Sparreboom, etc).

The 2001 edition is what you want. I've seen it called Les Salamandres too, or "Les Salamandres de l'Ancien Monde" (the latter part is in small writing underneath "Les Salamandres". This book is the one I'm referring to in my review on Caudata.org and earlier in this conversation. The cover is blue and has a photograph of a pair of Euproctus asper in amplexus on it.

From the back of the book:

"Les auteurs de cet ouvrage se sont donnés pour but d'actualiser complètement, selon état de 1999, l'ancien livre "Les Salamandres" de Robert Thorn, qui datait de 1968.

Ce livre s'adresse à l'amateur sérieux de sciences naturelles, tout comme au scientifique professionnel, ainsi qu'à tous ceux pour qui la nature est un sujet de réflexion et d'émerveillement toujours renouvelé. Le professionnel y trouvera de nombreuses données à rechercer dans différentes publications spécialisées, parfois difficiles à obtenir et écrites dans des langues diverses.

Les auteurs espèrent avoir réalisé un aperçu concret sur toutes les espèces et sous-espèces de Salamandres de l'ancien monde (Europe, Asie et Afrique).

Les Salamandres se cantonnent principalement dans l'hémisphère boréal. Dans la Région paléarctique, elles restent au nord du Sahara et atteignent en Asie la Région orientale de justesse. Dans la Région néarctique, elles sont particulièrement nombreuses aux Etats-Unis et pénètrent profondément dans le domaine nétropical.

Les Urodèles forment un ordre d'Amphibiens fort mal connu du public. Et pourtant, les différentes espèces qui composent cet ordre présentent une richesse et une variété de formes, de couleurs et de moeurs des plus remarquables.
L'étude de chque espèce se subdivise en 10 paragraphes. Une partie de l'ouvrage contient des informations sur le maintien en captivité des Salamandres.

Une carte est publiée pour chaque espèce. Le livre contient plusieurs dizaines de planches couleurs."

As to which book I'd recommend, Griffiths' is very good and so is Thorn's, but Thorn's is far more broad in scope and probably the better book. I wouldn't be without either though.

 

[kai]

Eric, if you're mainly interested in Triturus, you'll also want to have a look at this forthcoming book (it's in German though):
Böhme, W., K. Grossenbacher & B. Thiesmeier. (2002?). Handbuch der Reptilien und Amphibien Europas, Vol.4/2, Schwanzlurche (Urodela) II. Aula Verlag, Wiesbaden. ISBN: 3891046189
It will be more expensive - probably about 100.- US$.

 

[eric]

Thank you very much John and Kai for your advices
and the time you spend to send me good informations.
As I said before, reading french is not a problem but my german is very, very poor. It's sad because I'm sure the german book will be a top one since Germany seems to have some of the best urodela breeders (Am I wrong?)
Because big serious books on newts are very rare, I think now that both Thorn and Griffiths books deserve to be bought. After all, it's cheaper than buying a single Neurergus ?????
Eric

 

[kai]

Hi Eric,

Yup, it's wise not to cheap out on getting the best information out there.

BTW, I should clarify that the German book above is a scientific endeavor and the (already published) other volume (Salamandra, etc.) has hardly any info on captive care (IIRC). Ecology and behavior are, of course, paramount for good CC.

Best wishes,
kai