Looking for Japanese firebellies

[jack]

I'm looking for Japanese fire bellies, but can find them no where. Any help identifying reliable sources would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jeff]

Well I don't know of any sources of Japanese, but I know the Chinese subspecies is quite easy to locate, if you don't mind shorter fingers/toes

 

[ralf]

Chinese and Japanese "firebellies" belong to the same genus but are totally different species not subspecies. So far no different subspecies of C. orientalis have been described (Nate?) and the status of the different pyrrhogaster-groups on the Japanese isles regarding subspecies is still unclear.

 

[nate]

No subspecies of orientalis described yet to my knowledge, Ralf.

C. pyrrhogaster is really difficult to come by these days here in the US. PetSmart is the only major chain I know that still occasionally has them. Otherwise, you'll just have to watch these forums closely for US hobbyists breeding them.

 

[jack]

I can get chinese fire bellies. I'm more interested in Japanese, because from what I read, they're more hearty and tolerate warmer temps. much better.

I've had some e-mail correspondence with a guy, who says he has some. He wants $12/newt and alot of money for overnight shipping. I don't think he's affiliated with a store and it would be pretty risky without some references.

 

[jennifer]

It would also be risky without some photos and measurements of the newts. A lot of pet places sell "Japanese firebellies" that are actually C. orientalis. Even if he's perfectly legit, this guy may not know the difference.

 

[jeff]

One of my firebellies has significantly longer toes then my other firebellies. Could he be a Japanese?

 

[edward]

Jack,
If you want a more warm tolerant species you should wait until the various breeders have some C. ensicauda ssp on the forum here.

Ed

 

[jack]

From what I read, many folks have success, even recommend higher temperatures for Japanese fire bellies. However, I would be fine with C. ensicauda (I did a search on this site and they look very similar to C. pyrrhogaster). These are for my kids, and quite frankly, the kids wouldn't know the difference.

Regarding heat, I plan to keep as cool as possible, but there might be times during the summer, when tank temps. could get into the upper 70's. I figure I could keep cool somewhat by elevating the flourescent fixture and placing a clip-on fan near the tank. The fan would help remove heat build-up from the light fixture and should increase water evaporation from the tank, which would also decrease the temperature.

 

[jennifer]

Unless you are really committed to firebellies, you also might want to consider Spanish ribbed newts (Pleurodeles waltl). They are very tolerant and commonly available as captive bred. The CB juveniles do not have the annoying terrestrial phase that firebellies do.

 

[jack]

I don't like the coloration of Pleurodeles waltl as well as that of the fire bellies. I don't think the kids would be fooled, either. Also, according to the Caudata description, Pleurodeles waltl needs temperatures @ or below 72 deg. F, though I realize that might be debatable.

What are some of the tricks people use to keep salamander tanks cool-- especially during the summer months?

 

[danny]

Jack, I use reusable ice packs in the summer. Its alot of work since you have to switch them out 2-3 times a day. Im actually looking at getting an old display case from a convience store. the ones that hold pop, food etc. Then I can place the tanks inside the display case/cooler and regulate their temperature. Only problem is that the coolers are so expensive, and you need space for it as well.

 

[jon]

For my tanks I just keep them in a room by an air conditioner. It keeps my temp around 65 deg.F which would be suitable for the firebelly's you are looking to get. If that is an option I would say go with that. Otherwise you can always use the old fashioned melted ice cubes on the screen, letting the cold water drip into the tank (make sure to use water from your tank for this). You can also take a look on ebay, they do make small aquarium coolers using thermoelectric cooling pads and fans.. I haven't actually used one of these myself, nor have I talked to anyone who has.. These devices require drilling holes into your tank, but could be good for a last resort.

 

[jennifer]

There is a list of cooling suggestions in the FAQ at Caudata Culture.

 

[jack]

Danny, if spending the money anyway, you might want to go with a homemade chiller. You can use a "dorm room" refrigerator. Basically, you drill a hole in the refrig. and run tubing through, coiling a bunch inside. The tubing runs back out via a second drilled hole, and then back into the tank. You just place a small pump in the tank to pump water into the refrig. Regulate so only a small amount of water gets through. The water that runs back into the tank will be quite cold and will reduce the water temp. considerably. Hence, you would lower the temp. of the tank. Obviously, this would only work for aquatic newts.

All that being said, I wouldn't want to start off with the expense or extra space involved with a homemade chiller, though I might do something like that later.

Jon, we have central heat/air, and no window units. Therefore, there is no good way to put near an air conditioner.

Thanks for the heads-up on the FAQ, Jennifer. I'll check it out.

 

[jack]

One other cooling question. I read the FAQ and it also mentioned increasing evaporation by using only a screen top. I have a glass top and a screen top so I could obviously remove the glass. I could also add a clip-on fan as mentioned before, which would also increase evaporation. However, removing the glass and adding a fan would definitely reduce the humidity. Is humidity really unimportant, since 2/3 of the tank is water anyway?

 

[jennifer]

Hi Jack, I would say that humidity in the air is irrelevant if the newt lives mostly in the water. If the newt spends a lot of time on land, then I'm not as sure. In dealing with juveniles, it is useful to keep their skin damp in order to encourage them to stay aquatic. I imagine that humidity may be helpful for this, but I've certainly kept plenty of juveniles in tanks with screens.

 

[john]

Aquatic Enterprises makes tanks with integrated cooling, mostly for live seafood but we've put them in research facilities, too.

www.aquaticenterprises.com

 

[jesper]

I bet P.walt is at least as thermoresistant as C.ensicauda and C.pyrrhogaster as they inhabit small ponds on the iberian peninsula and north africa some of which can dry out during the summer.
I bet the water in those ponds reach rather high temps for several months - some of the spanish members of this forum can probably vouch for that, Ruben perhaps?