loublue
Member
I thought I would document the situation with my Cynops pyrrhogaster which I had to put down recently, in case it can be of any use at all.
Short version:
She started struggling with swallowing food pretty suddenly the past 2-3 weeks to the point where she didn't even bother after a couple of bites. She has had this issue twice in the past several years ago, which I solved at the time by switching her diet from cod, shrimp etc to almost solely earthworm which seemed way easier for her to swallow and digest and also made her appetite come back fully. I also permanently moved her from my room with a temp of 20-25 degrees celsius, to our storage room which has a temp of 14-15 degrees celsius (and during our short summers it at most goes up to 17-18). This seemed like a miracle cure at the time as she became so much more healthy and lively in every way, which lasted for 5 years up until now. Because of this I truly believe that they thrive in lower temperatures. That's just my own anecdotal observation though.
Other odd behaviors that indicated something was wrong, was after trying to eat, she would squirm a lot against items in the tank, and try to "scratch" the side of her head. She looked very uncomfortable. She would very often also turn to "look back" as if reacting to some sensation in her lower body, so she'd be in a c shape. Her tail would also be curled up tightly a lot of the time. On occasion she would do a movement where it looked like she slowly was looking up, and there was also slow, wide gaping on occasion after trying to eat. When these behaviors started, she also kept having a barely noticeable tilted stance even when not feeding. She was also a lot less responsive.
All these behaviors were very uncharacteristic for her.
I gave her many days of not feeding in hopes her body would heal and recover, in case it was just a temporary irritation/inflammation of some sort. When trying to feed her the last few times, I chopped up the food until it was practically mush. This seemed a little bit easier on her, but she was still struggling, and also losing weight.
Unfortunately she just kept deteriorating no matter what. Despite not eating for a good while, she started exhibiting those behaviors all the time instead of just after eating, looking constantly uncomfortable. After thinking about it for an additional week and seeing her continuing to get worse (squirming a lot, generally odd behavior, not eating much, twitchy movements when she did eat, etc) I decided to euthanise her.
I read the euthanasia article on Caudata, and also read on other places. I initially considered clove oil but was never convinced that it won't cause discomfort considering their skin is even more sensitive than ours, and it seemed to me that there's no way to guarantee that the sedation will set in before potential burning sensations do especially at higher concentrations, maybe I'm wrong about this.
There was no way for me to get ms-222 or similar (the vets here are not allowed to prescribe anything over the phone and barely want to give advice unless you go there). No good vets for amphibians anywhere close to where I live.
Because of all this I decided that decapitation with pithing of the skull and upper spine right after was the most humane option that would be the least likely to cause discomfort. I decided I would fridge her for a while beforehand to make her sluggish and less aware, and to make the procedure less risky in terms of movements.
Fridging didn't help. The second I took her out of the container, she moved just as quickly as usual. Maybe this was because her usual temperature was already relatively low, or maybe it comes down to the individual. Others on here probably know that better than me.
It still went very easily and swiftly as I had very thoroughly thought about how to do it before taking her out.
I imagine many probably don't consider it a big deal to euthanise a newt, but I personally found it very difficult, maybe because of how long I've had her.
I used a sharp knife for both the decapitation and the pithing, in hopes it would destroy the whole brain quickly in one go.
My theories on what was wrong are not very educated, as I am not very knowledgeable on amphibians. If I had to guess, maybe there was a neurological issue that became more difficult for her to deal with as she got older. Maybe she had metabolic bone disease, as her back toes had also started becoming crooked later on.
There was also an incident about 11 years ago where a long hair got stuck around a piece of food that she swallowed, and she couldn't get it out so had to be carefully pulled out. She did not do well a couple weeks after that incident, and ever since I made sure to give her slightly smaller pieces of food since she had more struggle to swallow bigger ones. As long as I did this, she seemed to be doing very well up until these sudden instances many years later.
After this incident I made sure to always tie my hair up and change shirts before doing anything by the tank or with her food to not have similar accidents again. I also removed the bottom substrate and have kept the bottom of the tank bare ever since because I became paranoid of her swallowing things she shouldn't.
Maybe there has been internal scarring or some other type of lasting injury that somehow worsened with time because of this as well and it got more difficult with age, but it's just a wild guess.
Some other things. She suddenly got one cloudy eye years ago that never went away, but it didn't seem to bother her as far as I could tell. Her tail was also a little rugged looking, and as mentioned her back toes were a little crooked later on. Maybe some of these things were simply visual signs of having lived a long life.
I made many mistakes during the years I've had her, and I think one reason is that I took her out of pity rather than out of genuine interest. I do have a genuine interest in animals as a whole. I love animals. But I think the lack of genuine interest in amphibians specifically did not help, and I consider that a big failing on my part. I took her out of pity when when I was 8 when relatives didn't want her anymore, and carried really poor and wrong advice about it with me as a kid for a good while. I was even told she was a lizard initially, but I did figure that one out pretty quickly.
This website has been extremely useful to me over the years in getting reliable information, so thank you.
Hoping this post can serve some use, in one way or another. If you want to discuss the methods of euthanasia mentioned, that is fine with me of course.
Some pictures of Liss attached as well. Last one most recent, during an attempt at feeding.
Short version:
- At least 29-31 year old japanese fire belly newt, possibly older
- Odd behaviors on and off for the past 10 years. Neurological, old injury, or metabolic bone disease perhaps?
- An accident with a hair getting stuck around food and having to be pulled out 11 years ago, possible lasting injury
- Things that "cured" her for a long time were switching to an earthworm diet and moving her to a much colder environment
- euthanasia by decapitation + pithing
She started struggling with swallowing food pretty suddenly the past 2-3 weeks to the point where she didn't even bother after a couple of bites. She has had this issue twice in the past several years ago, which I solved at the time by switching her diet from cod, shrimp etc to almost solely earthworm which seemed way easier for her to swallow and digest and also made her appetite come back fully. I also permanently moved her from my room with a temp of 20-25 degrees celsius, to our storage room which has a temp of 14-15 degrees celsius (and during our short summers it at most goes up to 17-18). This seemed like a miracle cure at the time as she became so much more healthy and lively in every way, which lasted for 5 years up until now. Because of this I truly believe that they thrive in lower temperatures. That's just my own anecdotal observation though.
Other odd behaviors that indicated something was wrong, was after trying to eat, she would squirm a lot against items in the tank, and try to "scratch" the side of her head. She looked very uncomfortable. She would very often also turn to "look back" as if reacting to some sensation in her lower body, so she'd be in a c shape. Her tail would also be curled up tightly a lot of the time. On occasion she would do a movement where it looked like she slowly was looking up, and there was also slow, wide gaping on occasion after trying to eat. When these behaviors started, she also kept having a barely noticeable tilted stance even when not feeding. She was also a lot less responsive.
All these behaviors were very uncharacteristic for her.
I gave her many days of not feeding in hopes her body would heal and recover, in case it was just a temporary irritation/inflammation of some sort. When trying to feed her the last few times, I chopped up the food until it was practically mush. This seemed a little bit easier on her, but she was still struggling, and also losing weight.
Unfortunately she just kept deteriorating no matter what. Despite not eating for a good while, she started exhibiting those behaviors all the time instead of just after eating, looking constantly uncomfortable. After thinking about it for an additional week and seeing her continuing to get worse (squirming a lot, generally odd behavior, not eating much, twitchy movements when she did eat, etc) I decided to euthanise her.
I read the euthanasia article on Caudata, and also read on other places. I initially considered clove oil but was never convinced that it won't cause discomfort considering their skin is even more sensitive than ours, and it seemed to me that there's no way to guarantee that the sedation will set in before potential burning sensations do especially at higher concentrations, maybe I'm wrong about this.
There was no way for me to get ms-222 or similar (the vets here are not allowed to prescribe anything over the phone and barely want to give advice unless you go there). No good vets for amphibians anywhere close to where I live.
Because of all this I decided that decapitation with pithing of the skull and upper spine right after was the most humane option that would be the least likely to cause discomfort. I decided I would fridge her for a while beforehand to make her sluggish and less aware, and to make the procedure less risky in terms of movements.
Fridging didn't help. The second I took her out of the container, she moved just as quickly as usual. Maybe this was because her usual temperature was already relatively low, or maybe it comes down to the individual. Others on here probably know that better than me.
It still went very easily and swiftly as I had very thoroughly thought about how to do it before taking her out.
I imagine many probably don't consider it a big deal to euthanise a newt, but I personally found it very difficult, maybe because of how long I've had her.
I used a sharp knife for both the decapitation and the pithing, in hopes it would destroy the whole brain quickly in one go.
My theories on what was wrong are not very educated, as I am not very knowledgeable on amphibians. If I had to guess, maybe there was a neurological issue that became more difficult for her to deal with as she got older. Maybe she had metabolic bone disease, as her back toes had also started becoming crooked later on.
There was also an incident about 11 years ago where a long hair got stuck around a piece of food that she swallowed, and she couldn't get it out so had to be carefully pulled out. She did not do well a couple weeks after that incident, and ever since I made sure to give her slightly smaller pieces of food since she had more struggle to swallow bigger ones. As long as I did this, she seemed to be doing very well up until these sudden instances many years later.
After this incident I made sure to always tie my hair up and change shirts before doing anything by the tank or with her food to not have similar accidents again. I also removed the bottom substrate and have kept the bottom of the tank bare ever since because I became paranoid of her swallowing things she shouldn't.
Maybe there has been internal scarring or some other type of lasting injury that somehow worsened with time because of this as well and it got more difficult with age, but it's just a wild guess.
Some other things. She suddenly got one cloudy eye years ago that never went away, but it didn't seem to bother her as far as I could tell. Her tail was also a little rugged looking, and as mentioned her back toes were a little crooked later on. Maybe some of these things were simply visual signs of having lived a long life.
I made many mistakes during the years I've had her, and I think one reason is that I took her out of pity rather than out of genuine interest. I do have a genuine interest in animals as a whole. I love animals. But I think the lack of genuine interest in amphibians specifically did not help, and I consider that a big failing on my part. I took her out of pity when when I was 8 when relatives didn't want her anymore, and carried really poor and wrong advice about it with me as a kid for a good while. I was even told she was a lizard initially, but I did figure that one out pretty quickly.
This website has been extremely useful to me over the years in getting reliable information, so thank you.
Hoping this post can serve some use, in one way or another. If you want to discuss the methods of euthanasia mentioned, that is fine with me of course.
Some pictures of Liss attached as well. Last one most recent, during an attempt at feeding.
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