Is this legal, What should i do!

mikeg

mikeg

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Michael
Hey everyone,

Okay so i send off 10 axies to this guy, he then emailed me when he got them that he was very impressed with me i seem like a every young diligent man and when he turns the babies different colors i can have some....That right there caught my attention.... i asked him what exactly he meant by that he said he is using some type of injections and swapping the mouth of the axies to gather the DNA & RNA to extract the recessive gene to make them dominant and turn the Golden Albinos more vibrant Golden and the other axies into rare colors like deep orange, blue,purple, silver and red. I personally believe that he is going to dye them or tattoo them because axies don't naturally have these colors and he was begging me for a discount because he has no money. What should i do, is this legal???
 
If I were in your position I'd be reporting him an animal cruelty organisation (ASPCA?) and asking them to investigate.

Whether it's legal or not, it's not something I would want on my consience.
 
auntiejude said:
If I were in your position I'd be reporting him an animal cruelty organisation (ASPCA?) and asking them to investigate.

Whether it's legal or not, it's not something I would want on my consience.
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Exactly last thing i Would want to know is i sold Axolotls to someone who is now torturing them or something.

Ill call the and see what they say, ill update you guys.

.
 
There are really two separate questions -

Can you stop him from doing injections, or whatever, to the animals. Probably not. It's probably not illegal. And it doesn't sound like it's going to work.

Can you get him to pay - that's a separate issue. I would never recommend sending animals before receiving full payment. But since you did, you'll have to either cajole (or sue) the money out of him. You shouldn't agree to getting some of the animals back instead of payment - it's unlikely you'll get any back.
 
He did pay for the Axolotls in full before i send them, i always get the payment first before sending. he was just complaining about the price and how ever since he has received them ( 2 days ago) he has had to stop eating because he cant afford food......But then asked me to update him when i have other morphs available because he wants to buy 4 of each morph.


Jennewt said:
Can you get him to pay - that's a separate issue. I would never recommend sending animals before receiving full payment. But since you did, you'll have to either cajole (or sue) the money out of him. You shouldn't agree to getting some of the animals back instead of payment - it's unlikely you'll get any back.
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Reading this post made me want this persons number and give him a piece of my mind, although il keep it together lol.

If I were in your position id definitely do the same as Auntiejude.
that's not right legal or not, if axis aren't born the colours of the rainbow then by no means should they go through procedures to make them this way.
This was VERY slyly done by that person, however he told you what hes going/hoping to do so you could help the little guys out by hoping to prevent it!
Goodluck I hope it all goes well.
 
I would not send any more animals to this person. Did he contact you through this forum?
 
mikeg said:
i asked him what exactly he meant by that he said he is using some type of injections and swapping the mouth of the axies to gather the DNA & RNA to extract the recessive gene to make them dominant and turn the Golden Albinos more vibrant Golden and the other axies into rare colors like deep orange, blue,purple, silver and red.
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He's full of it! DNA manipulation is not something you do with a bootstrap budget. He's probably lying about not being able to eat, too. (since he can't afford to feed the axies as well as himself). Worms cost about 25$/pound. Axies aren't expensive too feed. Reagents to extract DNA are! If I had to guess, I would think he's trying to be impessive, and possibly planning to dye them. I wouldn't do business with him further.
 
mikeg said:
he was just complaining about the price and how ever since he has received them ( 2 days ago) he has had to stop eating because he cant afford food......
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If he can't afford to buy food to eat then he shouldn't even be purchasing axolotls. This guy is lying and just wants "test subjects" for a low price just to experiment on them. I wouldn't think it's illegal since people dye and tattoo fish. I just wouldn't do business with him anymore or with someone who isn't willing to pay the price as listed.
 
To be honest they look horrible. I wouldnt see the big deal in them ... it makes me feel sick but id rather their normal patterns and colours they are true natural beautys ... dying them is just nor fair or attractive! :-/

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk
 
auntiejude said:
If I were in your position I'd be reporting him an animal cruelty organisation (ASPCA?) and asking them to investigate.

Whether it's legal or not, it's not something I would want on my consience.
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well said Jude , animal cruelty is exactly that no matter what the species !!!
 
I would definitely report him. If the ASPCA won't fine him (most likely will) then I'm sure some science communities would file a suit against him. You cannot just experiment on animals without the proper license and qualifications. I'm almost scared to know how he planned on performing his procedures without even money for food. I'm at school to become a biologist and I have axolotls now that I will be breeding to look at genetics but this guy sounds a little off.
 
What is WRONG with people? Seriously???
 
This guy is definitely full of it. The DNA testing nonsense about trying to make a recessive gene dominant is just so remarkably silly and fractally wrong. He is either a trolling genius or someone who has only read about genetics in bad comicbooks.
While i´m most definitely against these practices i´m also quite shocked at the level of hypocrisy that this type of thread always generates. People will denounce these as cruel and undesirable and then turn around and buy GFP animals or line breed their recessive mutants for profit...
Albino axolotls are just as artificial as dyed ones, by the way... There´s nothing normal or natural about the mass production of laboratory introduced mutations that prevent the expression of pigments...

Don´t get me wrong, i´m so very glad that people are voicing their opposition to stuff like this, but it would be nice if there was some consistency to the objections.

I´m not sure there´s anything you can do to prevent this idiot from doing whatever he is planning to do, although judging by the sheer absurdity of the plan you described, i suspect he probably isn´t actually going to do anything to those axies...or at least i hope that´s the case...
 
Azhael said:
Albino axolotls are just as artificial as dyed ones, by the way....
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They may be 'artificial' in terms of how they were originally created, but cross breeding and hybridisation are a whole world away from dunking axies in acid and dying then neon colors. Axies aren't generally hurt in the process of breeding, offspring may be genetically altered but they survive and breed. Dying axies is just plain cruel.
I agree this guy is full of BS with the genetic manipulation, but he could experiment with acid baths and fabric dye.
 
I only mentioned that because the usual mutations had been described as natural (which they are not) as if that made them necessarily ok.
Obviously dying axolotls or any other animal is an awful practice that we should very strongly condemn, my point was that there is other stuff that we artifically do that negatively affects axolotls and that most people completely ignore or even fail to recognize at all even though sometimes they also represent a degree of cruelty. I´m all for critisizing practices that cause completely unnecessary harm to animals because it´s profitable or cool, i just wish people wouldn´t stop at the point when it is something they like, like glowing axolotls...


I´m afraid if someone with the know-how demonstrated by his babbling pseudogenetic nonsense is going to experiment with acid baths and dyes, those axolotls are as good as dead. This is a terrible example of what a market that is obsessed with aesthetic/rarity value and which preferentially generates profit from it eventually leads to...i hate it..
 
I'm with auntie Jude here. The percentage of albinoes, etc. in the population may be artificial, but they are naturally occurring sports (mutations). Selective breeding sports is as natural as it gets.

Gfp is a genetic modification and was probably introduced with a "gene gun" technique, akin to injecting snippets of DNA into the nucleus of a single celled axie egg and seeing what sticks. You can argue all day about the ethics of that, but I promise there was an ethics board that approved it. If you dig deep enough, you will be able to find that approval as well as the materials and methods used. Since that introduction, it has been maintained thru selective breeding.

Dyeing and tattooing is a whole different ball game.
 
I'm on board with most of what's being said here, but line breeding is something I am adamantly against and I personally feel uncomfortable about GFPs. I won't judge someone for having one, but it feels like over stepping some natural boundaries.
 
Albinos were produced in the lab through hybridisation with A.mavortium.
Also, just because it´s natural doesn´t mean it´s a good idea to breed for something or that any way of breeding for it is acceptable.
By the way i would say artificial selection in captivity is as unnatural as it gets, but that´s not the issue because it being natural or artificial is not the point, it´s how what we do affects the animals, that´s the issue.

I have no ethical problems with GFP animals being produced for genetic research. I do however think it´s objectionable to breed them for commercial profit and exposing them to UV light because making them glow is cooooool.
 
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