Is I (T) alpestris inexpectatus still valid?

[Tappers]

Having aquired some very nice CB Ichthyosaura/mesotriton/triturus alpestris inexpectatus a while ago, I now find myself with some lovely animals but a small gene pool.

Is this subspecific status still valid? I'm at a bit of a loss to find unrelated animals and if they are indeed a synonym of I.a.apuanus it would be much easier to introduce fresh blood lines. As an under-represented form in the UK, I dont want to muddy the water by producing intergrades - help!!

 

[uwe]

Hi Tappers,

while in the 80s and 90s inexpectatus was an accepted subspecies, in the newest literature I have access "Taschenlexikon der Amphibien und Reptilien Europas" by Dieter Glandt published in 2010, inexpectata (us) is no valid subspecies any more. He states that genetic investigations moved the animals from these aerea in SW Italy to the apuanus ubspecies.

So you may well mix your animals with apuanus animals.

BTW I have off-spring of them.

See you

Uwe

 

[Azhael]

Even if they are now considered apuanus, i feel an effort should be made to maintain the integrity of the "inexpectatus" population. Wether they are a subspecies of their own or not, they still are an isolated population and that shouldn´t be lost. Apuanus is much more common in the hobby, they would wipe out the "inexpectatus" if they are mixed.

 

[uwe]

Hi Azhael,

I agree with you, if the animals called inexpectatus (a) are with type location. Animals with exact place of orogin are always to value.

Do you have a proof where the animals are from tappers?

I expect that Tappers has need for animals to breed the group. Is that correct Tappers?

Uwe

 

[Tappers]

Thanks guys, I forgot that the change in genus would effect the gender of the specific = inexpectata.

I have a full sibling (?) pair with a spare male or two lodging with friends, all from the same batch. They were bred by Rigsby, so I'm sure some locality details could be traced.

I can imagine that another taxonomic shift (as if that could happen!) would leave any apuanus crossings out in the cold once more.

Did you mean you have this population Uwe, or apuanus?

I suppose the best solution would be to maintain the line undiluted and just use it as an excuse to have more alpestris housed seperately

 

[Endemico]

Hi Tappers!
Please I would like to see some pictures of your inexpectatus!

( Dont mix with apuanus!)

 

[uwe]

Hi Tappers,

as you have the place of origin (i hope i understood right), i would not dilute them. You have a valid group so hopefully breed them!

I have not inexpectatus/a, mine are apuanus.

See you

Uwe

 

[pollywog]

I'm also breeding inexpectatus, they have just started to lay eggs again and I still have some larvae from last year that should be getting close to morphing out. Mine didn't come from Rigsby so if you want some different blood for your group...

 

[Tappers]

Once in a while you see a post that lifts your mood enormously - thanks very much for that post Andrew!

I'm moving to the Ledbury area shortly, so if I can get hold of some of your juveniles post-morph that would be great

Hi Endemico - I'll try and get hold of a better camera to do them justice and thanks to this latest good news, the only way they'll meet any apuanus will be through a glass divider!

 

[louise]

I too have some of Rigsby's inexpectatus, but they're not breeding at the moment.

 

[Endemico]

Hi tappers,
do you have some picture of yours inexpectatus??

I'm looking again in this ssp, someone know who can sell me some inexpectatus??