Injured Taricha torosa, possible amputation? HELP!

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Elsendor

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Hey, I'm new here. I've been raiding the internet searching for help on Taricha torosa... One of my newts is injured and I stumbled upon this site...

I own seven small Taricha torosa newts. Long story short, my brothers and I caught a few juveniles and collected about a dozen eggs from a pond in the San Jose area, before we found out it was illegal. That was about two years ago, when we were not yet familiar with the laws on those things... I know I'm going to get flack for this, but at this point I truly don't believe letting them go is an option. They've pretty much grown up as family pets and haven't a clue how to hunt like wild newts, etc.

That explained... we have four larger ones (raised from juveniles) and three very small ones (raised from eggs), and had never had any trouble before. I did a lot of searching and couldn't find any hint of cannibalism on the species, and none ever showed any aggressiveness. Just yesterday, though, our third smallest (Merry)... I found him hiding under a branch with his left foreleg useless. I believe he was attacked, but I don't know for sure.I have set up a second tank for the three small newts just in case; I don't want to take any chances with the larger ones picking on them if that is the problem. I am extremely worried as to what I should do with him... how to treat Merry. Please, if anyone knows what to do with a broken leg... or how to avoid infections or anything...

Merry is not eating... he limps around if I am bothering him but otherwise he doesn't move much... I'm very, very concerned about him...

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I have had Merry and his two smaller buddies quarantined since the day he was injured... I still don't know for sure whether it was aggression or he hurt himself some other way.

His leg seems to be dead below the "elbow" now... I am in a total state of confusion because I'm deathly afraid of the limb rotting off and killing him... but at the same time I DON'T want to try amputation unless I absolutely have to.

He can move the first joint, where the leg attaches to the body, but below that he has shown no movement. The foot has sort of folded downwards and returns to that position if he is in water (on land it just sort of lies against his body as he moves). He still hasn't eaten... it's been around 5-8 days since he last ate and he still shows no interest in food. I'm afraid if he doesn't eat soon he'll starve, whether or not the leg can be saved.

We had seven newts in one (I think it's 10 gallons) tank--before anyone starts yelling at me, they're all still quite small. The biggest is under 3.5 inches long and the smallest just over an inch. As a result I figured it would be okay to keep them together until they get bigger.

Now the four larger ones (3-3.5 inches) are in the big tank, and I have the three little guys, including Merry, in a smaller quarantine tank. They never, ever showed signs of aggression before, and even now they don't.

Frankly I'm more concerned about Merry right now than about what happened-- because they're separated anyways. I have been salt bathing him twice a day and the leg is clean with no signs of decay/fungus/rotting. The one problem is there is no sign of life in his leg...

My mom refuses to try a vet, which pretty much leaves it to what I can do at home for him, so I really need help!
 
Wow, that sounds rough dude. One of my FBN juveniles broke a leg or possibly the shoulder this summer, I dunno how. The leg swelled up huge for a while and eventually mended but its no longer functional, it sticks strait out from his body like the oar of a row boat. At the time I thought his leg was extended and stiff with the swelling but its stayed like that. He still gets around alright, clearly hasnt starved or any thing, but sometimes I think of how it is that they can regenerate limbs and wonder if the limb was amputated would it come back better. Then I think that that is a crazy idea and probably a useless leg is better than the ordeal of regeneration.

Im curious to follow your case however, even though its probably too late for myself. I've often heard that injured animals under-go a great deal of fear because they know that they're vulnerable and that the best thing is to put them in a small, dim enclosure where they can know everything thats happening in their environment. Its possible that your guy isnt eating due to stress.
 
I'm pretty sure that's why he isn't eating... I just don't know what to do about it. I've read there's no good way to force feed a newt... so if he doesn't eat there really doesn't seem to be anything I can do. And that helplessness is killing me.

The main reason I'm considering amputation is just the fact that, if the limb is dead, it may start decaying and kill him with infection etc. I just don't want to put him through that pain unless absolutely necessary. And I don't think amputation is even an option unless he eats, because the shock of it would certainly keep him from eating for an even longer time...
 
I'm not trying to bash in any way, but just a friendly warning:

The fact that you didn't know the local laws is not a valid excuse to keep the animals. Salamanders/newts can (as far as I know) never be domesticated that much that they can't fend for themselves. They have the instinct to try and eat everything that moves.
My advice would be to return them to where you found them and try to obtain T. torosa by legal means. (if that is allowed in your state, that is)
I understand that this site actively helps the authorities in cases of illegal w/c animals..but don't pin me down on that.

As for your problems with the individual, It's hard for me to say what is best. Salt baths are mostly to kill fungus.
I'm not too sure about te regenerative powers of Taricha species, so I'm not sure if it will manage if you amputate the leg.
A picture might do some wonders, I think.
 
They should not be returned to the wild as they may well introduce unknown pathogens etc into the wild population.
Unfortunately many people are not aware of various laws and regulations on collecting wild animals, I have read there may be someone in the authorities whho could advise you what you should do.
I can't advise on the best care for your the little guy, other than keep in a clean container/ water and keep offering food. Try not to disturb him too much so as to reduce any extra stress.
One of the more experienced people will no doubt be able to offer better advice on how to proceed.
All the best , and please do keep us posted.
 
Hello,
I agree with Bella. Please do not return these newts to wild. Bella is right, the pathogen threat is truly unknown. It could be very dangerous.
Keep the newts and care for them the best you can. I will pull out the California State Hunting and Fishing License and Regulation book later and give you accurate info. But don't feel too bad, I think you are allowed to collect 4 animals during your lifetime with a fishing permit legally.
You are doing the right thing trying to care for your injured guy. Do not feel threatened by what Damien said. Go purchase a California Fishing permit.


I am not endorsing collection of wild Taricha torosa, just relaying info.
 
So, are you saying theres an open wound? I think the best thing is to put him in a small container alone with something to cower under so he feels secure. Maybe just a folded up paper towel as flooring so its moist and can be swapped for clean ones every few days. Put live food in with him so you can leave the top on for a few days at a time without disturbing him. Hopefully the motion of the bugs will trigger his natural instinct to snap them up. Leave him that way until it sorts itself out or starts to look bad then you will know that you have to do something, as apose to acting rashly and forever wondering if you did the right thing.
 
Thank you so much for the help, snow4aaron! We haven't picked up any others since we found out the laws, but we have had concerns about these little guys. I knew I couldn't really release them without risking pathogens, etc...

The wounds have healed over, but he still hasn't been able to move his leg and still isn't eating. It's the eating part I'm especially concerned about, since nothing else will help if he starves himself to death. I am still trying hard--thank you for your tips! Salt baths are done. :]

I have to go now, but I will be sure to keep you updated.
 
Hey Elsendor,
How is your little guy? Is he hanging in there? We are hoping for the best!
Try feeding a wax worm. While not the best nutritionally they are good as an occasional snack and for picky eaters. Reptile stores and bait shops carry them.
 
Snow4aaron: Thank you for checking in. Sorry it's been a while...

Merry is alive, but every morning I am afraid to check on him--he has not eaten as far as I know (I leave worms and small bugs in the cage just in case) for over two weeks. You can literally see every bone of his spine all the way down his back and tail.

I am really at a loss... I am at a point where I have given up hope, but I am trying nevertheless. If nothing else I hope he gets unbearably hungry enough that he will eat...

It's really odd... he can still walk around--he will actually move away rather than eat--even though he looks like a wraith. His leg is no better or worse... I have thus far chosen not to amputate it, in hopes that he will eat. I doubt he would if I caused him that kind of trauma.

So that's the news up to this point... please wish him luck!
 
Merry is still alive, amazingly. He has not eaten but he is still moving around quite well. His dead foot and part of the leg are missing--I believe he either reabsorbed them or ate them, and that may be why he hasn't starved to death. That he has lasted this long is hopefully a good sign. That's about all I have to say for now
 
Wow! He made it this far! We are rooting for him!
 
Thank you.

He STILL hasn't eaten... he is getting thin again, turning sort of a yellowish color that I swear isn't healthy. I am still trying to feed him every day, but that's about the best I know to do. Thanks for the support.
 
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