Question: infant cynops pyrrhogaster (firebelly newts) help

[roobot5000]

i was cleaning out my newt tank two weeks ago when i saw in the dirty water little black specks swimming around.
i quickly realized i had 5 babies and separated them out and put them in a 10 gallon tank with very few rocks, a small filter and an aerator.

every other day i feed them frozen baby brine shrimp and once a week crushed bloodworms.
every two days i siphon out the uneaten food and replace the water.

on monday, i lost 2 of the babies and today i lost a third.
they are roughly a half inch and i can see that they have both front and back legs, along with gills.

my concern is that they may not be eating, since they are so small, it's hard to tell.

my question is, are there any other food items i can offer them?
is there anything i can do to improve their current habitat?
there's very little information online that i've found that helps get them past this critical stage.

any information would be helpful and i apologize in advance if this is a duplicate thread.
sidenote: the attached pics are the day that i fished them out, they did not have back legs at that point.

 

[Azhael]

Welcome to the forum.
Such tiny larvae need live food, this is very important. They probably won´t eat anything that doesn´t move at this stage, so you need to make sure the food is alive, or that you move the food in front of them.
Try finding Daphnia, this works very well, you can also try newly hatched Artemia, finely chopped blackworms, or pond water(making sure there´s nothing nasty).
Once they grow to 3cm or so, they will probably start accepting dead food, if you are patient enough.
Good luck with them!

 

[roobot5000]

Welcome to the forum.
Such tiny larvae need live food, this is very important. They probably won´t eat anything that doesn´t move at this stage, so you need to make sure the food is alive, or that you move the food in front of them.
Try finding Daphnia, this works very well, you can also try newly hatched Artemia, finely chopped blackworms, or pond water(making sure there´s nothing nasty).
Once they grow to 3cm or so, they will probably start accepting dead food, if you are patient enough.
Good luck with them!

thanks for the tips and information.

unfortunately, i've yet to find a local store that offers live food, thus why i chose frozen.
i've read that you can hatch live brine shrimp, but i can't find the eggs locally either.
off to search online for live prey/brine shrimp eggs.
thanks again.

 

[Jennewt]

This may help:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/raising.shtml
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/microfoods.shtml

You need brine shrimp eggs. Any shop that specializes in saltwater aquariums should have them. And you should be able to get live blackworms somewhere in Chicago. Maybe some Chicagolanders can help you find the right place.

Good luck!

 

[Greewok]

Maybe some Chicagolanders can help you find the right place.

Stop by Ocean Design Aquarium (NW corner of Irving Park and Narragansett in the Dominicks shopping center). They will have live blackworms and many other things you might need.

 

[roobot5000]

This may help:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/raising.shtml
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/microfoods.shtml

You need brine shrimp eggs. Any shop that specializes in saltwater aquariums should have them. And you should be able to get live blackworms somewhere in Chicago. Maybe some Chicagolanders can help you find the right place.

Good luck!

i called around to a several places today and found store that has live prey.
i'm heading over there tomorrow.
i'll also be on the lookout for blackworms while i'm there.

thanks again.

 

[roobot5000]

Stop by Ocean Design Aquarium (NW corner of Irving Park and Narragansett in the Dominicks shopping center). They will have live blackworms and many other things you might need.

hey, i appreciate that. that's actually one of the two places i'm heading to tomorrow.
the other being old orchard aquarium in skokie.

i'll let yall know how it turns out.

 

[Greewok]

Both are great stores!

 

[roobot5000]

it appears that the last of the 5 babies is not going to make it.
one died the night before last and after many attempts to get the last little guy to eat live brine shrimp, daphnia and cut up blackworms, he looks like he's on his way out, as well.
it's really disheartening.

i've kept a plethora of reptiles for over 10 years, primarily desert dwellers.
however, about a year ago i ventured into the world of newts.
but as i've been cruising around here and checking out pics of other setups and descriptions of habitats, i'm wondering if i should elaborate on their home?

their current setup is:
a 20 gallon long tank that is 3/4 water, 1/4 land.
the substrate is primarily large stones.
they have about 3-4 inches of water at all times and there's a 20 gallon in-tank filter for filtration.
they have a floating plant in the water and a plant to hide in/under on the land side.
there's only two of them, 1 male and 1 female.
they seem very happy.

but here are few questions i've been contemplating:
should i provide them with more water?
should i change the land area over to a soil substrate?
should there be varying levels of climbing?
should i switch the fake plants over to real?

or if there's anything else anyone can think of to improve their enclosure, i'm definitely open to hearing it.

 

[ferret_corner]

Sorry I don't have any helpful hints - I just wanted to extend my condolences for the loss of the babies.

Now that you know they're happy enough to procreate - lol, keep those stores w/live foods on speed dial. I wish I could nail down a nearby source of those!

Sharon

 

[roobot5000]

Sorry I don't have any helpful hints - I just wanted to extend my condolences for the loss of the babies.

Now that you know they're happy enough to procreate - lol, keep those stores w/live foods on speed dial. I wish I could nail down a nearby source of those!

Sharon

thanks. it's sad to see them get to a couple of weeks and just start dying off with no real explanation.
but that's how it goes, sometimes.

in other news, i've pinned down a store that will have live food items on a regular basis.

thanks again.

 

[Azhael]

I´m personally a big fan of real plants and i think the more water the better.
They obviously are fine, because they bred.
This species is usually very aquatic, meaning that they (depending on individuals and temps) might not use the land area. That allows you to provice a fully aquatic set-up for them, enjoying all the advantages that a larger amount of water provides. For the land area(just in case) a piece of floating cork can be more than enough.
A 20gallon tank, filled with water to the top(not literally), heavily planted with natural plants, will provide a super house for them, and will allow you to raise the future larvae in the same tank without much effort.
Please note that this is just my personal opinion, and what works for me.

 

[roobot5000]

after being hyper-vigilant about the condition of the newts and the babies, i saw "big mama" lay 3 eggs.
2 in leaves and 1 on a nearby rock. while watching her lay those eggs just moments ago, i happened to notice between the leaves down to the bottom of the rocks that there's a baby newt amongst them surviving.

since not having any luck with the last clutch, i think i'll let nature take it's course with these.

 

[roobot5000]

I´m personally a big fan of real plants and i think the more water the better.
They obviously are fine, because they bred.
This species is usually very aquatic, meaning that they (depending on individuals and temps) might not use the land area. That allows you to provice a fully aquatic set-up for them, enjoying all the advantages that a larger amount of water provides. For the land area(just in case) a piece of floating cork can be more than enough.
A 20gallon tank, filled with water to the top(not literally), heavily planted with natural plants, will provide a super house for them, and will allow you to raise the future larvae in the same tank without much effort.
Please note that this is just my personal opinion, and what works for me.

i'm personally a fan of live vegetation, as well.
i haven't wanted to mess up the arrangement they've been living in for fear that an imbalance would occur and it would have devastating effects on them.

i will most likely increase the water level, but also keep the land area because they do come to land at night to sleep in/under the plant.

obviously, something is working correctly up until now because they are happy enough to breed.
apparently, very frequently. ha.

 

[Jennewt]

I think it would be fine to add some live plants to the tank. I don't remember... do you have stones, gravel, something like that?

I would recommend leaving the next set of larvae in the tank with the adults. For the first few weeks, they will be able to feed off the resident tank-critters (don't do any super cleaning; every tank hosts a lot of microscopic life). When they are a month old or so, you'll need to feed them, as they get too big to live on only tank critters. Feeding both the adults and larvae with blackworms at that point may work well.

 

[Greatwtehunter]

Well if you decide to try your hand at raising them again in the future I wish you luck and here is a little trick I have used for desperate times when I have had problems getting live foods. Now keep in mind that this is just my experience but maybe it could help you. You can use an air line to provide the neccesary movement required for newly hatched larvae to recognise frozen daphnia as food. I should let you know that you will want the absolutely least amount of water movement you can get away with since the larvae will be at the mercy of the current for the first few days of their lives. If you can postion the airline right ABOVE the waterline with duct tape so that it is blowing at the waters surface it should cause enough disturbance to give the food the right amount of movement. Oh if the waters is any deeper than around 1in this method doesn't really work. Now I know this may sound complicated or far fetched but it's worked a few times for me. I hope you never run into the problem of food shortage but just in case, here is some food for thought.

 

[roobot5000]

Well if you decide to try your hand at raising them again in the future I wish you luck and here is a little trick I have used for desperate times when I have had problems getting live foods. Now keep in mind that this is just my experience but maybe it could help you. You can use an air line to provide the neccesary movement required for newly hatched larvae to recognise frozen daphnia as food. I should let you know that you will want the absolutely least amount of water movement you can get away with since the larvae will be at the mercy of the current for the first few days of their lives. If you can postion the airline right ABOVE the waterline with duct tape so that it is blowing at the waters surface it should cause enough disturbance to give the food the right amount of movement. Oh if the waters is any deeper than around 1in this method doesn't really work. Now I know this may sound complicated or far fetched but it's worked a few times for me. I hope you never run into the problem of food shortage but just in case, here is some food for thought.

thanks for the tip, justin.

 

[roobot5000]

to update: the previous clutch died.
a couple of days ago, i did a thorough cleaning of the tank and put in a few new live plants, as suggested.
i also increased the water.

today big mama laid about a dozen eggs in one of the new plants.
here we go again.

i just wanted to thank everyone who gave me tips and information in my prior experience.

 

[Azhael]

Good luck with those
Cynops love live plants. I keep my pair of orientalis in a tank really crowded with live plants and they love it....the female will lay eggs for months. In my opinion the more plants the better. In my experience they kind of prefer laying where vegetation is particularly deep...i suposse it serves for hiding the eggs better.

 

[roobot5000]

Good luck with those
Cynops love live plants. I keep my pair of orientalis in a tank really crowded with live plants and they love it....the female will lay eggs for months. In my opinion the more plants the better. In my experience they kind of prefer laying where vegetation is particularly deep...i suposse it serves for hiding the eggs better.

they've been excited about the live additions, they weave in and out of them all day.

i'm also breeding live brine shrimp and blackworms for them.

they definitely appear happier with the modifications/live food and that's all that matters to me.