Illness/Sickness: In water but not eating at all (fire belly)

[loublue]

Hi, once again! For the last year I've had several problems with my newt but they all seemed to fix themselves after a while, including the ones I've written about in this forum. I believe she's around 22 years old now (can never be sure I guess).

Tried to search the forum but it's usually about newly bought newts that aren't eating.

Now she hasn't been eating for at least one week. She sits still on a plant almost all the time, very still. When I try to give her food she mostly seems bothered and swims away, the opposite of what she usually does when there's food.
It has gotten warmer but it's still not very warm where I live, and I've seen her in hot weather before and this is nothing like it. She's still always in the water so I believe the water is fine. She has live plants and from what I know there's nothing that stressed her out recently.

I know this is obviously not a good sign, the question is, is there anything I can do for her? I'm a little afraid to try and feed her with live food because she has had trouble swallowing and I always give her very small pieces of the frozen food she usually gets to make it easier for her.
Otherwise, any special food suggestions or anything else I can do for her?

Thank you

 

[Bellabelloo]

Hi

You have a little old newt, and she may be slowing down.
I would keep offering her, her usual food. Maybe try a small earthworm piece, or maybe a waxworm.

 

[loublue]

Hi

You have a little old newt, and she may be slowing down.
I would keep offering her, her usual food. Maybe try a small earthworm piece, or maybe a waxworm.

Thank you, I will go out looking for earthworms today. I am not at home where my newt lives today, but was told by family she barely hadn't moved at allt so my mom thought she was dead but finally moved a little when I got the call. I feel like it's impossible to know if she's suffering? Should I just let it take it's course or what would you have done in this situation?

 

[loublue]

Twitching

Now I see twitching. Like her whole body does a very quick and mostly subtle twitch, and last time her eyes closed a little when it happened too. I wish I knew more how amphibians worked, maybe I'd have some theories. I read about an axolotl with a similar problem and they recommended a saltbath. Could this help my fire belly also, maybe? I don't think it's some kind of fungus though, can't see anything like that on her. But I don't know.
If anyone knows what the twitching could be I would appreciate the information.

 

[jewett]

Hi loublue,

If an exotic vet is near you, I recommend getting your little newt seen. A medical professional that treats amphibians will give the best chance of a correct diagnoses/ prognosis and treatment.

Barring that, though, here are some thoughts:

What kind of frozen food have you been feeding her? The twitching made me think of a metabolic imbalance and many types of commonly offered newt foods do not have an appropriate calcium: phosphorous ratio (frozen blood worms, I'm lookin' at you. This article may help, if you have not already seen it: Caudata Culture Articles - Nutritional Values). Do you think she could have metabolic bone disease? I have read that aquatic animals don't always show the physical deformities associated with MBD because their body is partially supported by their watery environment.

I second Julia's recommendation to attempt feeding with earthworm as these have a nearly perfect calcium: phosphorous ratio for caudates (they are pretty much the perfect food for them, in my opinion). If she refuses the worm or none are to be found, you can purchase calcium: phosphorous supplements, but they are basically impossible to administer to animals that eat in the water.

Best of luck! I really hope you can figure out what is going on with her and can treat appropriately. Newts can live a long time - she may have years ahead of her yet!

HJ

 

[loublue]

Hi loublue,

If an exotic vet is near you, I recommend getting your little newt seen. A medical professional that treats amphibians will give the best chance of a correct diagnoses/ prognosis and treatment.

Barring that, though, here are some thoughts:

What kind of frozen food have you been feeding her? The twitching made me think of a metabolic imbalance and many types of commonly offered newt foods do not have an appropriate calcium: phosphorous ratio (frozen blood worms, I'm lookin' at you. This article may help, if you have not already seen it: Caudata Culture Articles - Nutritional Values). Do you think she could have metabolic bone disease? I have read that aquatic animals don't always show the physical deformities associated with MBD because their body is partially supported by their watery environment.

I second Julia's recommendation to attempt feeding with earthworm as these have a nearly perfect calcium: phosphorous ratio for caudates (they are pretty much the perfect food for them, in my opinion). If she refuses the worm or none are to be found, you can purchase calcium: phosphorous supplements, but they are basically impossible to administer to animals that eat in the water.

Best of luck! I really hope you can figure out what is going on with her and can treat appropriately. Newts can live a long time - she may have years ahead of her yet!

HJ

No, I have no vets around that knows anything about amphibians, unfortunately. I noticed that the first time my newt got sick and got terrible advice.

For a good while I was feeding her shrimps, and then I switched mostly to fish (cod) because that seemed easier for her to swallow. I also gave her some kind of pellets from the pet store for while that she didn't want later on.
It's very possible she does have the disease you're speaking of.

I was very skeptical she'd eat anything else because as soon as I moved the food closer towards her, she was swimming away from it without showing any interest or even looking at it. The movement seemed to bother her right away, even though I was very careful and slow, of course. I can't really leave food either because she doesn't find it most of the time, and in this situation I doubt it would make a difference.

Something I recognized this evening was that she pushed her front foot against the side of her head one time slowly, almost like a scratch and she also had her eyes closed for several seconds.
This makes me think she might after all be bothered by something in the water, but she doesn't go out of the water even though she has that option if she would want to.
Should I completely empty the tank, clean it and everything that's in it to make sure? I heard it's not good to do that because it destroys the eco system and I'm afraid it might do more bad than good to her in that case. Is this a bad or good idea?

Edit: Someone also spoke to me about the possibility of dangerous algae (because I mentioned I saw a new kind of algae in my tank, very green). Is this a possibility? If that's the case, what do I do about it?

Thank you so much for the response, btw. I'm very worried at this point.

 

[jewett]

I wish I had more advice for you! At this point perhaps it would be better to offer anything, regardless of the nutritional value/ cahos ratio, just to get her to eat. Are there any live foods you could introduce into the tank, like a large species of daphnia or some gammarus? Something that would stay alive and not foul the water, and also move to perhaps attract her attention and elicit a feeding response. She may have trouble eating it, but it may whet her appetite, and then you could offer something she is used to and has eaten in the past, like the cod.

I don't think I would completely empty and sterilize the tank. I think doing so would cause her more stress as the tank cycles again, and I would not want to expose her to dangerous chemicals while the good bacteria get established again. Especially since its not known if she or the tank are harboring any parasites, so I don't think the risk would be worth the potential benefit.

I wish we had more information on normal aging for newts. It would be beneficial if we had a good understanding of normal age related changes and behavior versus pathology. Perhaps she is not sick, but simply aging normally.

Again, I wish I had more advice for you! It's so frustrating to watch your pet struggle and to have your hands tied. I do wish you and she the best. Please keep us updated!

HJ

 

[loublue]

I wish I had more advice for you! At this point perhaps it would be better to offer anything, regardless of the nutritional value/ cahos ratio, just to get her to eat. Are there any live foods you could introduce into the tank, like a large species of daphnia or some gammarus? Something that would stay alive and not foul the water, and also move to perhaps attract her attention and elicit a feeding response. She may have trouble eating it, but it may whet her appetite, and then you could offer something she is used to and has eaten in the past, like the cod.

I don't think I would completely empty and sterilize the tank. I think doing so would cause her more stress as the tank cycles again, and I would not want to expose her to dangerous chemicals while the good bacteria get established again. Especially since its not known if she or the tank are harboring any parasites, so I don't think the risk would be worth the potential benefit.

I wish we had more information on normal aging for newts. It would be beneficial if we had a good understanding of normal age related changes and behavior versus pathology. Perhaps she is not sick, but simply aging normally.

Again, I wish I had more advice for you! It's so frustrating to watch your pet struggle and to have your hands tied. I do wish you and she the best. Please keep us updated!

HJ

I managed to feed her some small pieces of earthworm yesterday and the day before that, so that's good. It takes a lot of patience though, because instinctively she swims away but if I take it really slow she recognizes the food and slowly eats it, if I'm lucky.

You're right, cleaning the tank out completely is probably not the best thing to do.

More information overall would be great, even though caudata has been incredible in that sense, for me at least. Today one of her eyes were closed, it didn't look good. I have no idea why. I also called a veterinarian (far away) just to hear her opinion but it didn't give much. Not easy over the phone. I will attach a picture of her closed eye. The other eye is still open. Any theories about what this could indicate?
Thank you again

 

[loublue]

Just wanted to give you an update! She is looking great now, the earthworms was like a miracle cure. Faster improvement than I expected. She's alert, fast, moving normally and very happy about eating.
Thank you for all the advice and the support!