identification of this paramesotriton(experts)

ricardito

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Hi everybody, im a new user from this forum and this page. Im from Spain and sorry by my poor english, i wish you can understand me good.

I have adopted 2 patients newt paramesotriton, for try recover their lifes.

The problem and doubt is in the species of each paramesotriton, i have done photos about his bellys, bodys and faces, for all of you will can help me in the identification. I suposse they are the same specie, but im not sure about her differences.

Help me!!! thank you very much

the first newt, mixed of yellow and brown, now he is eating and active
DSC00053.jpg

DSC00052.jpg

DSC00032.jpg


this is the second newt, black, he havent eaten yet:(
DSC00056.jpg

DSC00030.jpg

DSC00025.jpg


please, help me!!
 
Paramesotriton Chinensis

Bottom pics are of a male by the way....top looks like a female
 
thanks for the fast response:rolleyes::

-Are two Chinensis without any doubt?

-Does not import the belly difference?:confused:
 
Last edited:
The belly pattern is rarely enough to go on as the only tool for identifying Paramesotritons...though that said, the second ones belly looks more like your average Chinensis. The top animal is very pale but i'm still 95% sure it's Chinensis because i can see yellow dots on its flanks. Also, Chinensis has a longer snout (premaxilla) and warty skin. Fuzhongensis also has warty skin but not in my experience as much as Chinensis. Fuzhongs also have a more rounded face than the pointed Chinensis.
Often regional variations in species like Paramesotriton can be quite different so even though two seperated groups may be the same species they can often look slightly different.
 
ok, thanks, and for more happyness they are pair, i have seen the characteristic courtship tail movement of males in the black newt. My theory its true:D

thanks other time!!
 
Well thats a good sign...hopefully they'll breed for you.
Chinensis are lovely newts. I've looked at that top picture alot and i'm sure its a female chinensis...just a pale version of one. The majority of them are mottled in colour like the male that you have but sometimes you get a light variation. Also, Chinensis is the only Paramesotriton to have yellow dots on its sides as far as i'm aware.
 
I picked up a trio myself today so I am glad that you posted this question. I was fairly certain that they were chinensis however it never hurts to have more opinions. Andrew, are you able to sex this species based on the different coloration? I barely have any personal experience with Paramesotriton however I "rescued" these three from the firebelly toad tank at a local fish store. Based on your sexing information I have 1.2.
Chip
 
Hi Foster, i was basing my statement that the bottom pic shows a male from the fact that it's tail is a lot shorter and more laterally compressed. i can also see a faint white flash along it.
I'd say that the main feature for identifying Chinensis though would be the long premaxilla...their colours are too variable to identify the sexes. The more common colour for chinensis though is more like that of the male in the pic...mottled
The female in the pic looks like its tail is longer and less laterally compressed
 
Hi there. What are you offering them? I can see bloodworms in the tank. Have you tried earthworms??? They may trigger a better response and probably make the male eat.
Nice looking animals btw...
 
hi paisano:D!! , i tried all the food live and dead, i raise earthworms (red californiana) but the black Chinensis accept nothing.
 
Hi,
Have you tried Waxworms? Often newts that don't accept food take them as first food. Have you thought about seperating them? If the on not eating is ill it will probably infect the other newt.
Fabian
 
i know it, so did at the begining until they began to show assets.

But the black newt continue without feeding, i have to return to separate them.
 
Pretty much all newts go crazy for worms and they make a great staple food. The worms they mostly go crazy for though are not the red types. You want to try and feed the newts a species of worm called Lumbricus Terrestris....i'll be very shocked if the animal doesn't eat those.
Waxworms aren't the best food for aquatic animals unless the newt comes out on to land now and then. The reason i say they're not a good food is because if you put waxworms in the water they will drown in about 10 seconds flat.
 
Thanks again for the information Andy. I'll check mine again tonight after work and see if I can figure out what ratio I have. I offered a section of chopped earthworm to each individual yesterday and all three fed with gusto.
Chip
 
According to the descriptive paper, fuzhongensis is more warty than the rest of the Paramesotriton species. Although the paper describing fuzhongensis (Wen 1989) is detailed, that describing chinensis (Gray 1859) is barely more than a paragraph (Gray did not even collect the specimens himself) and is most unhelpful. It does say that the skin of chinensis is 'acutely granular' however. As this was the first species of Paramesotriton described (as Trituroides, I think) there is no comparison to other species.

I do not think that the presence of a small number of orange flecks on the dorsum distinguishes chinensis (I have seen fuzhongensis and hongkongensis with the same flecks).

Allegedly, the fleshy labial fold is a distinguishing feature of fuzhongensis, but I have seen this in several Paramesotriton species, though not quite as fleshy as in fuzhongensis. Paramesotriton fuzhongensis is also supposed to have a crease running from the anterior corner of the eye to the fleshy labial fold (I observed this in my own specimens), which these anmals do not possess. The absence of warts on the lips and to a large extent on the dorsal limb surface in the brown animal would suggest chinensis rather than fuzhongensis.

I would agree that the dark animal (the male) is definately chinensis, and given that the brown animal was in the same batch as the male, and has slightly un-fuzhongensis-ish charactrs (such as the lack of the crease on the face and relatively smooth lips and limbs, as well as smallish belly spots roughly in two lines), and also has smallish, infrequent throat-spots, I would think that it is probably of the same species.


The black animal doesn't seem too thin at the moment, so given some time undistrubed to settle in it may start eating. If not, force-feeding a couple of times may do the trick. Try feeding at night by torchlight, when then newt is more active and more likely to go into feeding mode.

I had a male chinensis that, due to an infected fighting wound on the back, stopped eating and would not start again even when the wound was treated and healed. I used a syringe (without needle, of course) attached to a short length of air-line tubing (about 5cm). I filled the syringe with a small amount of meat-based baby food (about the equivalent of a small normal newt-meal) and squeezed the plunger until the baby food was at the end of the tubing. I then carefully forced the newt's mouth open and inserted the tubing into the beginning of the oesophagus, then squuezed the food into the newts throat, deep enough in to force a swallowing reaction. I did this three times a few days apart and soon after the newt resumed eating and quickly recovered. This is, of course, something to use as a last effort.

Good luck with them.

Chris
 
(Whoa, I didn't realise I had written so much!). Also, in the tank, try to give the animal low caves by placing flat rocks across two supports, like a bridge, about 4cm above the substrate; they like to hide beneath rocks like this.
 
too late...:(this morning black newt was dead..., Froggy i didnt read you help in time.

The yellow animal its now recoveried and eat perfect. But I cant get other Chinensis here near:eek:

Does anyone have a healthy Chinensis male to sell me?:confused:
 
Sorry for your loss there Ricardo...
Finding adult males for sale might be quite difficult. Probably you will only (if anything) find wild caught ones which depending on your point of view may not be what you are looking for. A better chance to get some though would be posting an advert in the "wanted" section on this forum and wait for somebody to offer captive bred juveniles. I´m not sure how often this animals are bred in captivity but you should give it a try.
Btw, nice to hear the other one is doing fine.
 
if i would knowt there method before i could have acted correctly at time:(
 
is it easy the reproduction of Chinensis¿?:confused:
 
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